Opinion
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Page 6
The Michigan Daily
Vol. XCII, No. 41-
Ninety-two Years of Editorial Freedom
Edited and managed by students
Friday, July 16, 1982
The Michigan Daily
Kubler-R oss speaks
on death and beyond
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L at the University of Michigan Elizabeth Kubler-Ross is an
internationally renowned, but
controversial, psychiatrist and
author of "On Death and
s un c o ce Dying." She is known for her
W ITH THE Reagan administration's foreign work helping terminally ill
policy in disarray, this nation needs patients.
someone to take hold of the ship of state and Recenty she conducted a
bring it to a more steady, pragmatic course. special University workshop
New Secretary of State George Shultz may be entitled "Death and Dying. "
just the person to do the job. Daily staff writer Lou Fintor
The Senate confirmed Shultz unanimously spoke with Kubler-Ross about
yesterday to replace Alexander ; Haig. her work and her views on life
President Reagan has insisted that U.S. foreign after death
policy will remain the same-basically har-
dline anti-Soviet-but Shultz will undoubtedly
be a moderating force in the administration. He D1
has recognized both the "legitimate needs" of
the Palestinians and continued U.S. commit-
ment to Israel. He also called the concept of a
winnable nuclear war "appalling." Daily: Isn't it difticult to
The White House needs the moderation and epara ouse f ecom
pesnlyinvolved with your
experience Shultz offers. As a secretary of the patients?
treasury under Nixon, he negotiated trade with Kubler-Ross: You cannot care
many nations, including the Soviet Union, and for somebody if you don't get per-
already has gone on several unofficial sonally involved. See, if you don't
have any (unresolved personal
diplomatic missions for President Reagan. problems), you don't get involved
Now as official secretary of state, Shultz will in an unhealthy way.
be the "team player" that an egocentric Haig Daily: But most nursing
never could be. Shultz, however, is not likely to schools and schools of medicine
be blindly loyal either. As treasury secretary, say professionals should remain
he resisted Nixon's crooked efforts to have the e
IRS hound plitical enemies. Kubler-Ross: I know, 'stay a
IRS professional, be detached.' If you
What awaits George Shultz at the state depar- were dying, would you like a
tment is a series of tangled policies that needs detached nurse or a detached
to be straightened out-especially in the doctor worrying about the size of
Mideast, where the administration has been your liver and not about you? You
' can't do that. There are some
sending conflicting signals to the Israelis, and times in medicine when you have
in Western Europe, where the administration to be that way (detached)-it's
opposed, then accepted, then opposed again the the only thing to do. But not with
Soviet gas pipeline. dying patients.
Shultz has a tough job ahead of him indeed. . Daily: What type of terminally
ill patient do you find the most
difficult to work with?
Kubler-Ross: Suicides, and the
families of murdered children.
The parents of murdered
children have a terrible problem
because they have had no support
system until recently. We now
have a national organization of
parents of murdered children.
And the families who have
children who commit suicides is"
also very tragic.
Daily: Do you usually find that
the patient has more trouble ac-
cepting death or is it the family
member?
Kubler-Ross: They (patients)
have the least. The family mem-
ber has much more trouble.
Daily: If you could isolate one
particular difficulty in working
with the terminally ill, what
GE IN C O HCK /" n would that be?
Kubler-Ross: The staff. The
staff that is trained to cure, to
treat, to prolong life, that has not
gotten enough help. Like the doc-
tor who takes care of the patient
if there is a chance and if there
isn't, they drop them. That's
terrible.
Daily: Is faith a cop-out?
Kubler-Ross: No faith is not,
but the faith that most people
have is. People need real faith.
Without faith, I never would have
lasted.
Daily: What is the most impor-
tant point that you would like to
stress to someone who finds out
that they are going to die?
Kubler-Ross: There is a
beautiful saying, 'doctor heal
thyself.' If we could take care of
our own (unresolved problems)
then you can heal the problems of
your fellow man. Then you don't
follow a textbook and try to fit
them into a mold because every
patient is different and needs dif-
ferent time. People begin to un-
derstand that dying with dignity
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does not mean to die with peace
and acceptance-and that your
job is not to push them through
these stages of your own way you
would like them to die.
To die with dignity means to be
allowed to die with character.
People who have been fighters
and rebels all their lives and
that's how they're going to be un-
til the end, and if: you can respect
that, that's loving.
Daily: You believe that in some
instances physicians are correct
when they try to maintain or
prolong life when death is
inevitable?
Kubler-Ross: You never know,
not ever. But very often you
really do not know if there is a
chance of a functioning survival.
If a young person is in a motor-
cycle accident you do everything
in the world to save that person's
life-every machine, everything.
If you have a patient who's at
peace, who has gone through
cancer and is at the end of can-
cer-full of it-and dies, you do
not resuscitate. That is cruel and
sadistic. But those are two ex-
tremes and there is every shade of
gray in between them.
Daily: In long term chronic
illness, do you think the family or
those close to the individual have
a right to choose whether to
maintain the life artificially?
Kubler-Ross: Oh, no one has
the right to take free choice away
from another human being. Free
choice, you have to be careful
without it. Really depressed ones
do commit suicide when they
have twenty more years of fun-
ctional, beautiful life. You really
have to evaluate people. Free
choice is the greatest gift of life,
and that's kind of simple. If an
old man says he wants to go
home, he's hooked up to
machines, and has lived his life,
he has free choice to send himself
out of the hospital. And I would
like to help him. You usually
know this is right-not for you,
but for the patient. And they tell
you that this is their last Christ-
mas and then you naturally listen
to it.
Daily: And so then I would
assume that you believe that
patients also have a right to know
their prognosis?
Kubler-Ross: You bet,
definitely.
Daily: Do you profess any
religious philosophy or conviction
about an afterlife or a heaven or
hell?
Kubler-Ross: I know there is
life after death, I don't just
believe it. Yes, there is a big dif-
ference. We have done very
elaborate research for 15 years
and it's very researchable. There
isn't a shadow of a doubt.
Daily: What makes you feel so
strongly?
Kubler-Ross: Research data.
It's totally verifiable. In 1968 I
was spit at the face in public for
my work with dying patients. And
ten years later I received
honorary doctorate degrees from
the same institutions. Now I'm
spit in the face again for my
research on life after death. And
20 years from now everyone will
know. People knock what they
don't want to understand. But
that's human nature.