Opinion 4 Page 6 The Michigan Daily Vol. XCII, No. 41- Ninety-two Years of Editorial Freedom Edited and managed by students Friday, July 16, 1982 The Michigan Daily Kubler-R oss speaks on death and beyond 4 L at the University of Michigan Elizabeth Kubler-Ross is an internationally renowned, but controversial, psychiatrist and author of "On Death and s un c o ce Dying." She is known for her W ITH THE Reagan administration's foreign work helping terminally ill policy in disarray, this nation needs patients. someone to take hold of the ship of state and Recenty she conducted a bring it to a more steady, pragmatic course. special University workshop New Secretary of State George Shultz may be entitled "Death and Dying. " just the person to do the job. Daily staff writer Lou Fintor The Senate confirmed Shultz unanimously spoke with Kubler-Ross about yesterday to replace Alexander ; Haig. her work and her views on life President Reagan has insisted that U.S. foreign after death policy will remain the same-basically har- dline anti-Soviet-but Shultz will undoubtedly be a moderating force in the administration. He D1 has recognized both the "legitimate needs" of the Palestinians and continued U.S. commit- ment to Israel. He also called the concept of a winnable nuclear war "appalling." Daily: Isn't it difticult to The White House needs the moderation and epara ouse f ecom pesnlyinvolved with your experience Shultz offers. As a secretary of the patients? treasury under Nixon, he negotiated trade with Kubler-Ross: You cannot care many nations, including the Soviet Union, and for somebody if you don't get per- already has gone on several unofficial sonally involved. See, if you don't have any (unresolved personal diplomatic missions for President Reagan. problems), you don't get involved Now as official secretary of state, Shultz will in an unhealthy way. be the "team player" that an egocentric Haig Daily: But most nursing never could be. Shultz, however, is not likely to schools and schools of medicine be blindly loyal either. As treasury secretary, say professionals should remain he resisted Nixon's crooked efforts to have the e IRS hound plitical enemies. Kubler-Ross: I know, 'stay a IRS professional, be detached.' If you What awaits George Shultz at the state depar- were dying, would you like a tment is a series of tangled policies that needs detached nurse or a detached to be straightened out-especially in the doctor worrying about the size of Mideast, where the administration has been your liver and not about you? You ' can't do that. There are some sending conflicting signals to the Israelis, and times in medicine when you have in Western Europe, where the administration to be that way (detached)-it's opposed, then accepted, then opposed again the the only thing to do. But not with Soviet gas pipeline. dying patients. Shultz has a tough job ahead of him indeed. . Daily: What type of terminally ill patient do you find the most difficult to work with? Kubler-Ross: Suicides, and the families of murdered children. The parents of murdered children have a terrible problem because they have had no support system until recently. We now have a national organization of parents of murdered children. And the families who have children who commit suicides is" also very tragic. Daily: Do you usually find that the patient has more trouble ac- cepting death or is it the family member? Kubler-Ross: They (patients) have the least. The family mem- ber has much more trouble. Daily: If you could isolate one particular difficulty in working with the terminally ill, what GE IN C O HCK /" n would that be? Kubler-Ross: The staff. The staff that is trained to cure, to treat, to prolong life, that has not gotten enough help. Like the doc- tor who takes care of the patient if there is a chance and if there isn't, they drop them. That's terrible. Daily: Is faith a cop-out? Kubler-Ross: No faith is not, but the faith that most people have is. People need real faith. Without faith, I never would have lasted. Daily: What is the most impor- tant point that you would like to stress to someone who finds out that they are going to die? Kubler-Ross: There is a beautiful saying, 'doctor heal thyself.' If we could take care of our own (unresolved problems) then you can heal the problems of your fellow man. Then you don't follow a textbook and try to fit them into a mold because every patient is different and needs dif- ferent time. People begin to un- derstand that dying with dignity 4 4 does not mean to die with peace and acceptance-and that your job is not to push them through these stages of your own way you would like them to die. To die with dignity means to be allowed to die with character. People who have been fighters and rebels all their lives and that's how they're going to be un- til the end, and if: you can respect that, that's loving. Daily: You believe that in some instances physicians are correct when they try to maintain or prolong life when death is inevitable? Kubler-Ross: You never know, not ever. But very often you really do not know if there is a chance of a functioning survival. If a young person is in a motor- cycle accident you do everything in the world to save that person's life-every machine, everything. If you have a patient who's at peace, who has gone through cancer and is at the end of can- cer-full of it-and dies, you do not resuscitate. That is cruel and sadistic. But those are two ex- tremes and there is every shade of gray in between them. Daily: In long term chronic illness, do you think the family or those close to the individual have a right to choose whether to maintain the life artificially? Kubler-Ross: Oh, no one has the right to take free choice away from another human being. Free choice, you have to be careful without it. Really depressed ones do commit suicide when they have twenty more years of fun- ctional, beautiful life. You really have to evaluate people. Free choice is the greatest gift of life, and that's kind of simple. If an old man says he wants to go home, he's hooked up to machines, and has lived his life, he has free choice to send himself out of the hospital. And I would like to help him. You usually know this is right-not for you, but for the patient. And they tell you that this is their last Christ- mas and then you naturally listen to it. Daily: And so then I would assume that you believe that patients also have a right to know their prognosis? Kubler-Ross: You bet, definitely. Daily: Do you profess any religious philosophy or conviction about an afterlife or a heaven or hell? Kubler-Ross: I know there is life after death, I don't just believe it. Yes, there is a big dif- ference. We have done very elaborate research for 15 years and it's very researchable. There isn't a shadow of a doubt. Daily: What makes you feel so strongly? Kubler-Ross: Research data. It's totally verifiable. In 1968 I was spit at the face in public for my work with dying patients. And ten years later I received honorary doctorate degrees from the same institutions. Now I'm spit in the face again for my research on life after death. And 20 years from now everyone will know. People knock what they don't want to understand. But that's human nature.