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'HURSDAY. JUNE 15, 1967 NIGHT EDITOR: WALTER SHAPIRO
An Hour With Muhammad Ali
-- 11
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This is the second and last portion
of an interview with Muhammad Ali,
the controversial boxer-personality. I
talked with Ali for nearly an hour
Monday evening at his suite in De-
troit's Sheraton-Cadillac Hotel.
All, recently stripped of his title
by the World Boxing Association, was
reluctant to talk about his opposition
to the draft, but he gave freely his
opinions on a wide range of topics,
from his membership in the Black
Muslims to the civil rights movement.
The text is taken verbatim from a
tape recording, and no changes have
been made to Ali's distinctive style of
speech.
-JOHN LOTTIER
DAILY: So then your object is to
spread to youth the teachings of
Elijali Muhammad?
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T .A
Fire in a Village:
Sadness in India
By ROBERT J. MALIKIN
The author is serving in India
as a member of the Peace Corps.
This is a second in a series on
his impression of the crawling
nation.
GOPALAPATNAM, India-Sad-
tess comes to India in many
forms. It may range from a hung-
ry child, a farmer waiting for the
rains which are a month late, or a
mother who is afraid to tell her
husband that she is pregnant
again. It has reached the point
were each of us, upon hearing the
name "India," thinks only of pov-
erty, illness and disease.,
But then, there is the tragedy
which I witnessed for the first
time, and was not prepared for.
As the summer spreads across
the country, the already dried
land becomes even more parched,
and the palm leaves that are used
for constructing roof tops are easy
prey for the searing heat.
IT WAS quite a hot day, in one
of India's million rural villages
and that's all it took for fire to
break out. Thirty minutes after
the first roof top spewed forth
flames, 500 people were standing
in the baked street-homeless.
As.I walked around the village,
the mud that the house walls are
made of was starting to crumble,
and what had at once been a com-
munity, was now a collection of.
clay skeletons. Sobbing and moan-
ing could be heard from within
many of the ruins. Men and
women wandered about the area,
a dazed look in their eyes, mum-
bling to themselves.
There is no such thing as in-
surance for these people. What
they held in their little metal suit-
cases. or placed in clay pots, or
had hidden in secret areas of their
homes, was all they still posssessed
previously.
A woman curled up in one
corner, weeping, her still simmer-
ing wares spread like treasures be-
fore her: the once beautiful red
sari that her daughter was to wear
at her wedding, the now char-
red jewelry that was to be in-
cluded in someone's dowry, a
favorite lungi ta man's cloth
shirt) . They are all gone forever.
The cows walked about the vil-
lage as if nothing had changed. A
child laughed and giggled as he
played in the ashes with his favor-
ite toy-now a piece of melted
plastic
A man tugged on my sleeve
crying and told me between sobs
how he had nothing any more. A
woman returned home to find
everything in ruins
THE GOVERNMENT. agency
workers will eventually come
bringing relief-clothing, food, and
medicine. The real problem, how-
ever, lies in'simply in getting the
people going again. So many of
them are at a complete loss to de-
cide what to do now.
But, in addition, in the back of
their minds is the thought of im-
pending monsoons-due in the
next few weeks. Where will they
be when the rains come? Fresh
mud houses crumble so easily in
the torrential downpours.
@00
All:
teach
pline,t
self
Right. And give them ... and
them about the history, disci-
cleanliness, and how to clean up
respect self. Number one, we
1
must be taught to respect the woman
because this is another of the teach-
ings of the Honorable Elijah Muham-
mad, because the woman is like the
field which produces our nation and
if we don't protect and respect our
womenhood we will produce a bad na-
tion. A farmer will go out into the
fields and he will spray anything that
tries to kill his crops. We will even
shoot one another for stealing the
other one's crop. We will put up scar-
eycrows to keep the enemies out of our
fields, Now how much more important
is a nation's woman than its crops,
when a woman produces your future;
your daughters and your sons. And if
we do not respect and protect our
women, we can respected or protected
by a white America.
Daily: Just where does the black
man stand?
All: We're the onliest people who
have slave names, we're the onliest
people who don't know our history, or
our nationality, or our culture.
We have been put in the condition
of a man in prison. When a man goes,
to prison you strip him of the clothes
that he wore when he was free and
you give him stripes. When a man goes
to prison his food .changes. He don't
eat the smothered steaks, the mashed
potatoes, thecreamed peas, the butter--
light rolls that he ate when he was
free. He eats prison food. When a
man is in prison his language changes
. a room is no longer a room, but it's
a cell. A policeman is no longer a po-
liceman but he's 'a bull or a turnkey.
His name is no longer George, William,
or Edward but its 34578921 or its 1123-
456 or its 2245897. When a man's in
a jail, he's patriotic towards that jail.
When he's in Alcatraz and he plays
football, then he play in the name;
he's patriotic towards Alcatraz. If he
boxes he boxes for Alcatraz. Same
with the Negro here in the wilderness
of North America.
Daily: What can the white man do,
or what should he do from the stand-
point of the Black Muslims?
work of a thousand slaves, they no
longer need us for that labor, all we
have to do is walk around with no
jobs. Twenty-two million people got to
eat every day. Twenty-two million
people got to buy their clothes. Got
twenty-two million people who got'to
feed the children, and still be deprived
of equal education, be deprived of
equal employment. Well now why not,
if we are free then, let us exercise the
right of being free and go and do for
ourselves. It's not hatred, it's not hatred
or racist, we just want a chance to
build and do for ourseles. This coun-
try is owned and controlled by Amer-
ica: the whites. Why not let us go to
ourselves, since we can't seem to get
along in peace after giving America
our sweat and blood for 400 years, work-
ing 310 years for 16 hours a day with
no pay, and still being brutalized and
kicked across the country for just the
mask of equality.
DAILY: Would this, then, be for all
of America's black men?
Ali: For all that want to be free and
live among themselves. The ones who
don't want to go,. the ones who want
to integrate, the ones who want to get
beat up, or shot and kicked around,
well they can stay there.
Daily: In short, you just want the
opportunity.
Ali: We just want to be free and
go to exercise and do for ourselves
like other nations. Since there's no
more slave-labor work, machines and
automation's taken over and we're not
needed for slavery no more, so why
not then go somewhere else and do
for self. Don't give us nothing, just
repay us, don't give us nothing.
Daily: All so-called civil rights ad-
vances are, then, ineffectual.
Ali: Well listen. What they say is
"token." If you take a token to ride a
bus . ... token is something in the ab-
sence of real money, see. They're not
really fighting for integration, they're
just asking for token integration,
which is something that is not solid,
there's no future in it, there's no se-
curity or nothing and it might col-
lapse at anytime.
Daily: What do you feel about Ne-
groes working within the political sys-
tem of white America, for example,
Senator.Brooke of Massachusetts?
Ali: I don't know too much about
them. I'm sure that if they're black
men that they're doing what they
think is right to help bring freedom,
justice and equality to 22 million black
people in America. And as long as their
intentions is right, as long as their in-
tention is to help the problem, then al-
though their approach may be differ-
ent from ours, but I'm still with them if
they mean right.
DAILY: Finally a very crucial point
in what you just said is that the
individual is doing what he thinks and
believes to be right. Do you feel that
white men are doing what they think
is right, or have they become slaves of
PeSERT
5Dj\j C-s-
MUSIC
Second Fair Lane
Concert Bests First
Letters to the Editor
Reply
I am the bony girl referred to
by David Chananie in his letter
to the editor' concerning our ac-
tions at the Israel Rally Sunday
evening. Contrary to Chananie's
distorted assumptions, I am not a
member of SDS, nor have I once
attended a meeting of that orga-
nization nor have I read all its
literature. (Although the more I
see of the liberal alternative, and
the more. I became aware of poli-
tical and social issues and the
treatment given them by the U.S.
government, the more I agree with
Voice's platform and actions as
reported in the newspapers. My
three friends also attending that
meeting are members of SDS.)
As Sunday night's meeting had
been advertised as open to all, I
came as an interested, uncommit-
ted observer, a non-Jew (al-
though the three people with me
were from a Jewish background)
with loyalties to neither side. I
consider myself as having a free
mind, affected only so far as I
want by the values and political
beliefs -of my friends. In short, my
actions Sunday night were no pre-
cipitated by membership in SDS,
nor by my association with mem-
bers of SDS. Obviously, Chanan-
ie cannot claim to have such an
unbiased mind, since the greater,
part of his article was admittedly
based upon hearsay. I suggest that
before Chananie write any further
lies or slander, he check sources
of information other than the
shaded observations of a few
friends.
Point One: Chananie refers to
an accusation of rape, which he
writes provoked an assault upon
"the slender boy with dark hair."
No such accusation was made at
this time. Rather, a man from the
audience seated in front of us,
accused us of insulting Professor
Kaplan. He then, somehow, as-
sumed great authority, telling us,
rather impolitely, to get out of
the meeting. When we refused to
do so, he rose from his seat and
assaulted "the slender boy . ."
Shortly afterwards, Imad Khad-
duri attempted to speak. The
question of whether this Arab stu-
dent had or had not a right to
speak at such a meeting became
irrelevant at the point at which
he was impolitely, militantly, re-
moved from the stage by approxi-
mately 25 peacelovers. At this
time perhaps 30 or so people were
walking towards the stage. When
we attempted to do the same, we
were assaulted, not on a one to
one basis, but rather 10 to one.
In order to get the hands of one
of them off me, it was said, "What
would you do if someone assault-
ed your wife. Well, that's what I'm
going to do to you." Amazing. He
let go immediately. I do not won-
der that the Israelis achieved vic-
tory so easily if they employed the
tactics of the Ann Arbor Jewish
audience, attacking 10 to one,
screaming, "Kill him. Kill him."
And these men are applauded for
bravery while we are accused of
barbarism.
POINT THREE: We were ask-
ed, "How dare you insult Professor
Kaplan?" I say easily. Kaplan was
a fine entertainer at Sunday's
meeting. His adeptness with words
was apparent, commanding them
td feed upon the sympathy and
irrationality of his audience. He
defends and applauds the right of
the Israelis to fight for their
country, yet is silent upon the
right of the Vietnamese to defend
their country from U.S aggres-
sion. (Although this is not to
imply that I think the Israeli
cause parallel in correctness to the
Viet cause.)
Respect for Professor Kaplan?
Is respect due a man who defends
only the rights of one people, be-
cause of his own interests, while
ignoring the rights of another
people? Is respect due a man who,
while ostensibly in favor of civil
liberties, used all pressures he had
to stop Cinema Guild from ex-
ercising their's in the seizure of
Flaming Creatures? It was dis-
gusting to hear this "fine" pro-
fessor joke about the Israeli-Arab
issue. It is easy to joke on a stage
in Ann Arbor High School sur-
rounded by 500 anxious- to-give-
money-to-the-cause Jews, 'while
men are dying in the Middle East.
This is how I dare insult Professor
Kaplan.
AS I SAID earlier, I am not a
member of SDS, but if SDS stands
against the type of "justice" meet-
ed out to us at Sunday's meeting,
I will become a member. Ten to
one attacks are very effective.
Perhaps the bravery of these Ann
Arbor citizens would fade a bit if
they were actually in the Middle
East, fighting for either side. But
they are not. They are here, at-
tacking people who disagree with
them, with the odds at least ten to
one in their favor. Despite the at-
tack of criticism which has been
directed towards myself and my
friends, I uphold our actions at
Sunday night's meeting, and
would not have acted differently,
except perhaps to beat that fine
man who laids his hands on me.
As an afterthought after reading
Mr. Khadduri's letter to the Daily,
as sad as it is to admit, I must
say to him that, "Yes, our foreign
policy in the Middle East as well
as our foreign policy in Vietnam
and our internal policy in the
Black ghettoes is typical of the
'American way of justice'."
-Susan Dick
Freedom of Speech
On Sunday evening a meeting in
support of the state of Israel,
sponsored by the Washtenaw
County Jewish Community Coun-
cil, was disrupted when the presi-
dent of the Arab Students Associa-
tion attempted to take the pla-
form. Some members of the audi-
ence-who may have come for
that purpose-added to the dis-
ruption by demanding that he be
allowed to speak.
There seems to be some confu-
sion as to the meaning of freedom
of speech.
The right of free speech does
not mean that wherever and
forum for the Arab states. There
will be other occasions-announc-
ed at the very time of the dis-
ruption-specifically intended to
allow for presentation of diverse
points of view. A church service
provides neither the time nor place
to debate atheism.
Those who call for free speech
in these circumstances are them-
selves denying that right to oth-
ers.
It is especially ironic that the
Arabs who for 19 years have re-
fused to talk with the Israelis
anywhere about anything should
insist on being heard at a rally
for Israel.
-Abraham Kaplan
Professor of Philosophy
-Robert S. Friedman
Challenge
I ask Prof. Abraham Kaplan,
one of the speakers at the "Sup-
port for Israel Rally" held last
Sunday. to inform the Michigan
community through the pages of
this newspaper whether he believes
that the use of arms to extend po-
litical sovereignty and to expro-
priate public and private lands
and properties can be morally jus-
tified in any circumstances.
-Edward Trainor, Grad
About-Face
It was an interesting if not en-
lightening experience, to observe
the fact that some of those who
were amongst the most vociferous
in the anti-war demonstrations
with regards to Viet Nam, were
likewise amongst the most audible
with regards to the justification
of Israel's actions during-the past
week and a half.
-Phyllis M. Miotke
Homage
Let us pay homage to the cause
of Judaism. It has turned an ob-
jective philosopher into a mypop-
ic rally maker; it has transform-
ed a renowned anti-war writer
into a belligerent polemic, and it
has changed a fair-minded stu-
dent paper into one of open bias.
That is a greater achievement
than the military victories in the
Middle East.
Ernst Soudek, Grad
Peace Plea
I want to congratulate you on
the article by David Knoke, "Bud-
dhist Peace Plea Falls on Deaf
Ears," in your June 13 issue. It
makes grim reading, but thank
God you are willing to publish
this kind of thing, which may
perhaps do a little toward arous-
ing the consciences of University
of Michigan students in regard to
the crimes we Americans are com-
mitting in Vietnam. The New York
Times was too cowardly to print
the letter from the Vietnam Bud-
dhist student and faculty leaders
to American student leaders which
Alfred Hassler of the Fellowship
of Reconciliation brought back
with him. Maybe the Daily should
think again about claiming to be
The New Vnrk Timo nf colle
By NEAL BRUSS
PROGRAM
Concerto Grosso in G minor, Op.
6, No. 6, . . . Handel
Concerto for Three Horns in D
major .. . Telemann
Concerto for Three- Trumpets
and Two Oboes in D major .
Telemann
Concerto for Two Violins in C
major . . . Telemann ,
Concerto for Trumpet in D.,
major . . , Telemann
Concerto Grosso in D major, Op.
6, No. 5 . .. Handel
Despite the night humidity, the
sound of the Chicago Symphony
Baroque Orchestra Sunday was ex-
cellent, even better than that of
the Sunday before; the soloists
were masttrful. It was the second
of the first two memorable Fair
Lane Festival concert sets, and for
a Festival and Orchestra that
started out successfully, the second
set was even better..
The horns were stronger and
harpsichordist Kenneth Gilbert
came through much more clearly
than on June 4. Cellist Antonio
Janigro guest conducted in place
of Jean Martinon,. violinist and
Chicago Symphony music director,
who appeared last week.
The evening concert in the misty
court opening off of the former
Ford home, now part of the Dear-
born campus, followed a rained-
out afternoon performance. Jani-
gro would have soloed in the'after-
noon.
The orchestra's string, which
performed clearly and deftly in
an all-Bach concert June 4, were
OPINION
The Daily has begun accept-
ing articles from faculty, ad-
ministration, and students on
subjects of their choice. They
are to be 600-900 words in
length and should be submitted
to the Editorial Director..
richer and perhaps more unified
in the second- concert.
IN WHAT was a strong concert,
the soloists were especially power-
ful. Violinist Steven Staryk, a
standout at the afternoon all-
Bach concert, played equally mas-
terfully in several first violin and
solo parts. Adolph Herseth played'
clear and strong trumpet solos in
two Telemann concertos. A horn
battery of Dale Clevenger, Clyde
Wedgwood and Richard Oldberg
were outstanding on another Tele-
mann concerto.
It was difficult, in fact, to spot
flaws in the Orchestra's work be-
cause it sounded fine, arid in a
long tree-lined field, a good sound
despite wind, planes and train
whistles, is an achievement. Ba-
roque music, in addition,ris fast-
moving and lively. The orchestra-
tions are festive and lively. The
tunes are 'high-blown and lively.
Handel's G minor concerto grosso
and Telemann's Concerto for
Three Trumpets and Two Oboes in
D major are especially varied and
colorful. All, the music embodies
a range of style and mood.
THE CHOICE of music and per-
formers is as it should be. The'
Festival is an easygoing affair, and
'only masterful musicians could
avoid the dangers of the casual,
outdoor format. Locally, sym-
phonies and soloists have bombed
in summer concerts. So far, the
fresh air performances at the
Dearborn campus have been tho-
roughly enjoyable.
- - And as before, the house and
riverside -lands are open before
and during concerts. There are
musicians on the patio during in-
termission-and they enjoy talking
with audience members when they
can. The total event is relaxed,
stimulating and engaging.
Despite that it is in its first sea-
son, the Fair Lane Festival could-
n't be more enjoyable. But the
lienup of music, and performers
for future concerts implies that it
will be.
Ali: Number one, I say this. From my
understanding we are not Black Mus-
lims; we are Muslims, Islam has no
color distinction. But in my under-
standing, which is nothing compared
to our leader, the Honorable Elijah
Muhummad, what I would say is that
the white man should just answer to
his (Elijah Muhammad's) solution to
the problem, and that's just repay us
for the 400 years of free slave labor,
310 years, I'd say, working 16 hours a
day, which enabled America to be 50
of the richest states of this planet. By
dividing the country or sending us
back to our homelands and supply our
needs to start and operate a new gov-
ernment for the first 20 to 25 years.
And a peaceful solution is the
onliest way he sees; a total separation
of the races with a good send-off, and
to be allowed to do and deal for our-
selves and to be doctors, lawyers, car-
penters, technicians, mechanics .
one Negro makes glass for cars, one
Negro makes the motor, one Negro
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