The Jewish Ensemble Theatre presents
By Herb Gardner
"Herb Gardner's
best play.
Pungent, deeply
felt and very
powerful."
NOVA: There are respected historians
like John Keegan, Gordon Craig and
Donald Cameron Watt who say nice
things about him as a historian.
DL: They say nice things, but about his
Holocaust history and his views on
Hitler, they say his views are ridiculous.
At the trial, John Keegan said that
Irving's views about Hider not knowing
about the Holocaust are absurd. Craig
said the same thing about- his
Holocaust history.
None of them has ever followed his
footnotes in other matters. My question
would be, "If they followed his foot-
notes, what would they find?"
NOVA: In the course of this trial,
were there ups and downs? How did it
all unfold from your point of view?
DL: From my point of view, there were
very few downs. We had such a strong
case that there was never a time I
thought we would lose. I knew -we'd
always win on the history; because we
knew we had the truth; it's not a sur-
prising thing.
And research we had done showed
the degree to which he manipulated the
truth. So I was always sure about that.
What I wasn't sure about is that we'd
win on the anti-Semitism and the
racism.
NOVA: Explain those.
DL: We demonstrated he is a terrible
and-Semite and a terrible racist, and
that this was intimately connected to
his Holocaust denials; that this is all
part of his neo-Nazi, racist, anti-Semitic
view of the world.
NOVA: The verdict sounds like every-
thing you could have wanted.
DL: It was a smashing victory. We
never dreamt that we would have such
a resounding victory
NOVA: Do you have any insight into
Irving's state of mind? Has he always
believed the Holocaust to be a hoax,
has he slowly persuaded himself of
this, or does he just say it but doesn't
believe it?
DL: That's such a good question and
such a hard one to answer. I believe he
knows he's lying. I know he knows he's
lying because it's so overt when he
makes these things up. But once he
makes them up, he sort of convinces
himself he's telling the truth.
Has he always been a denier? No. He
knows the Holocaust happened, but he
has now convinced himself that it hasn't
happened. If what I'm saying to you
doesn't make sense, it's because it does-
n't make sense.
NOVA: Your book makes it dear that
during the 1990s, Holocaust deniers
- Clive Barnes,
New York Post
made con-
siderable
headway on
college cam-
puses as far
as getting
their claims
regarded as
the "other"
side. Where
do things
b -
stand now
Are students
inoculated David Irving arrives at
against
court for the start of his
these tech- libel action against
niques?
Deborah Lipstadt.
DL: No, I
think college students have very short
memories, and so you have a maximum
four-year and usually three-year cycle of
issues on campuses. At the moment
there's a pretty strong inoculation, but I
think it'll come back in a different
form.
Performances
Wed. 2 p.m. & 7:30 p.m.,
Thur. 7:30 p.m.,
Sat. 8 p.m.,
Sun. 2 p.m. & 7:30 p.m.
In The Aaron DeRoy Theatre
ENs, ttes.,
6600 West Maple Road,
West Bloomfield
Sponsored by:
Oct. 25 - Nov.26, 2000
11-:";killinan
For ticket information call
248-788-2900
„TN
fax: 248-788-5160
MASCO
NOVA: What do you think Holocaust
deniers will try next?
DL: They'll come up with new argu-
ments. They don't go away The racists
don't go away. The anti-Semites don't
go away. The haters don't go away
They just come up with new argu-
ments. They'll resurrect themselves one
way or the other. But Irving will never
have the reputation that he had before.
NOVA: What's next for you?
DL: I'm writing a book about the trial.
I'm writing the book nobody else can
write. ❑
Behind The Scenes
Melanie Wallace, senior producer
of co-productions and acquisitions
for NOVA, helped adapt the origi-
nal British documentary on the
Lipstadt/Irving trial for PBS and
American audiences.
"It's a bit outside NOVA's usual
realm [of scientific programs]," con-
cedes the Jewish producer, "but the
deniers use pseudo-science to make
their claim and we wanted to use
science to debunk them."
Wallace, 49, who currently lives
in Newton, Mass., grew up in
Huntington Woods and is a gradu-
ate of the University of Michigan.
She is the daughter of Renee and
the late Stanford Wallace.
She currently is in China with her
mother, now a resident of Houston,
Texas; her husband, Andre Martin, a
software engineer; and her daughter,
Samantha, 11, to attend the 2000
Beijing International Scientific Film
Festival. Wallace has been with
WGBH, Boston's PBS station, for
more than 15 years.
Order your tickets online @
www.liichiganOpera.org
Call313/237-SING
OPE
Group Sales 313/237-3409
TicketMaster 248/645 - 6666
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