The Michigan Daily - Wednesday, December 5, 2001 - 7

Interviews going well,
but concerns remain

DETROIT (AP) - Though initial interviews in
the terrorism investigation have gone well, some
Arab-American leaders say they're still wary of
federal authorities' plans to interview hundreds of
area men. High among the concerns is what hap-
pens to those men who've overstayed their visas or ,
who have some other immigration violation. So far,
there have been mixed messages from attorneys,
local leaders and authorities.
"I was pleasantly surprised at the non-confronta-
tional nature of the interviews. ... It was not as
searing as I had anticipated," said Noel Saleh, a
Detroit immigration attorney. "It doesn't mean I've
changed my position on the interviews."
Saleh said the three men who were interviewed
in his office Monday were asked their immigration
status. His clients were students with current visas.
"I would be heartened to hear that any informa-
tion as to minor immigration violations or any
immigration violation would not be reported as an
inducement for people to be forthcoming," Saleh
said. "But that's certainly not my understanding."
But John Bell, special agent in charge of the
Detroit FBI office, said yesterday that interviewers
aren't asking about the men's immigration status.
That would be "detrimental" to the effort, Bell said.
Bell said, however, that if an immigration viola-
tion comes out during the interview, law enforce-
ment officials have to take appropriate action.


Saleh argued that its inevitable a person would
reveal their status because they are asked to prove
their identity at the interview's start.
More than 600 men in Michigan have been iden-
tified as part of the Justice Department's nation-
wide effort to contact more than 5,000 visitors and
determine if they have been recruited by Osama
bin Laden's terrorist organization, al-Qaida.
Michigan is home to about 350,000 Arab-Amer-
icans, most in the southeastern part of the state,
where letters were sent to more than 560 men.
Assistant U.S. Attorney Bob Cares said as of
early yesterday, about 185 men had responded to
letters, a half-dozen had been interviewed, and one
had declined the request. Cares said if someone
declines an interview, that is the end of the process.
As of yesterday evening, a total of 200 men had
responded.
Imad Hamad, regional director of the Ameri-
can-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, said
none of the men in interviews he attended Mon-
day were asked their immigration status.

N ETANYAH U
Continued from Page 1
Program Associate Stephanie Ballantyne said.
"Especially because of everything that's going on in Israel
now, it's prominent and Netanyahu was on the news all week-
end long. It's important that they get a reality check and not
just what the news is feeding them," she said. "The news is
starting to be more fair but Netanyahu is a very eloquent
speaker.... He gave us more hard facts we wouldn't be able to
know otherwise."
Ballantyne added that it was important that students were
showing their support for Israel by attending the event. "It's a
time of crisis in Israel and we need to show our support as
American Jews. Going to an event like this tonight with a very
high-profile speaker, it's not the safest thing to do, but every-
one is rallying and going regardless," she said.
Engineering sophomore Avi Jacobson said he attended the
event because he was interested to hear about current issues
from someone who had once been in power but that he hoped
for more concrete discussion.
"I wish he would have spent less of his time explaining why
he thinks he's right and that the Palestinians are wrong and
instead defined for us what would constitute a true partner for
peace," Jacobson said. "What's lacking from the Israeli side is
a statement of long-term goals and a political strategy."
LSA sophomore Eve Posen said she hoped to find out what
Netanyahu would advise America do to in response to terror-
ism. "Now that we've experienced it first-hand, hearing about
how to deal with it makes more sense and seems really impor-
tant," she said.
"He focused more on what we should be thinking about
with terrorism, about how America and Israel are the only
ones fighting it and it's not true," Posen said. "And when he
started to talk about Israel and how they have a claim to the
land he was very one-sided and his points were valid but
they're not acceptable to get peace."

AFG HANISTAN
Continued from Page 1
Qaida hide-outs had killed dozens of
Afghan civilians and said the targets
bombed by U.S. forces were the intend-
ed ones. Rumsfeld compared estimates
of the dead to early tallies of as many as
10,000. at the World Trade Center on
Sept. 11, which later proved to be more
than double the actual number.
"If we cannot know for certain how
many people were killed in Lower
Manhattan, where we have full access
to the site, thousands of reporters,
investigators, rescue workers combing
the wreckage, and no enemy propa-
ganda to confuse the situation, one
ought to be sensitive to how difficult it
is to know with certainty, in real time,
what may have happened in any given
situation in Afghanistan, where we
lack access and we're dealing with
world-class liars," Rumsfeld told
reporters.
Senior Defense officials speculated
that the dead might include relatives of
Taliban and al-Qaida members.
Although the combination of U.S.
airstrikes and opposition ground
troops has swept across every major
city in Afghanistan except for the Tal-
iban's spiritual stronghold of Kandahar
in the south, pockets of resistance con-
tinue to threaten allied forces.
The small gatherings present height-
ened risks for anti-Taliban fighters and

the 1,500 to 2,000 U.S. Special Forces
and other ground troops, Rumsfeld said.
A U.S. soldier was shot in the chest
yesterday while assisting opposition
forces near Kandahar, the U.S. Central
Command in Tampa, Fla., reported.
The soldier, whose name was with-
held, was in stable condition.
Gen. Richard B. Myers, chairman of
the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said U.S.
Marines based less than 80 miles from
Kandahar had begun destroying com-
munications links used by the fading
regime, declining to elaborate on their
methods. But Rumsfeld all but ruled out
binding the estimated 1,200 Marines in
the region to Pashtun opposition groups
in a ground battle to take Kandahar.
Anti-Taliban forces in southern
Afghanistan fighting to capture Kan-
dahar's airport ran into heavy resis-
tance for the third straight day
yesterday, managing to fight their way
inside the airport perimeter but failing
to subdue a large group of Arabs
defending the facility.
Yusaf Pushtoon, an aide to anti-Tal-
iban commander Gul Agha Shirzai,
said their fighters had pushed their
way into a southern corner of the air-
port and occupied a guard tower
before dark yesterday. He said three
members of Shirzai's force had been
killed in fierce fighting Monday and
and that the advance was moving
extremely slowly to avoid further casu-
alties.
have in some cases been biased
at her and think, 'Well, she cannot

SWIRE
Continued from Page 1.
approval of the Patriot Act was not justified because law
enforcement officials can survey individuals without obtaining
search warrants each time. She said this sets up a situation in
which law enforcement can get carried away by patriotic zeal.
But Swire said security has simply become a bigger issue
since the terrorist attacks. He said many people are tolerat-
ing the increased surveillance to prevent a series of similar
acts of terrorism.
"September 11 can be either one big attack or the first in
a series," Swire said. "The Patriot Act has a lot of provi-
sions I don't like, but the republic keeps going, and I see
hope in that."
Swire added that most of the provisions have a four-year
limit, and when this time period expires, Congress will be
forced to reevaluate the laws.
Fitch said possible violations of privacy under the act are
troubling, but these intrusions must be judged in context.
LSA freshman Gil Stending said students realize the
Patriot Act was passed quickly, but they understand the laws
and the circumstances under which they were passed.
Swire encouraged students to study the pros and cons of
the Patriot Act because it is a work in progress.
"These laws will shape the world the students will work
in," Swire said. "Students have to decide when they want


WOMEN
Continued from Page 1
expressed their concern about "hurtful loose talk"
about female leaders and unequal treatment by other
women.
"There were secretaries who would willingly make
coffee for the men, but when I asked, I watched their
cheeks tighten," said Verna Green, president of the
Detroit Black Chamber of Commerce.
Shirley Stancato, president and CEO of New Detroit
Inc., said that women who step out of their roles are
questioned.
"When a woman moves to a particular position,
other women who are socialized think, 'Well, they're
out of place,"' Stancato said.
The five panelists wrestled with the inquiry of why
women do not support female candidates, such as Eliz-
abeth Dole, although they would like to see positions
filled by women.
"A woman candidate has to deal with that whole
layer of surface stuff," Green said.

"Older women
because they look

possibly be in selective offices if she has young child
at home,"' said Teresa Planchetka, who works in the
office of Sen. Debbie Stabenow (D-Mich.).
Stabenow was originally scheduled to attend the
event, but issues in Washington kept her from appear-
ing as a panelist.
"Debbie has served on very non-traditional commit-
tees her whole career," Planchetka said.
"When you look at her public perception and what
people think about her, they will not recall these things
about her."
Oxygen, the event's host, is a media company cater-
ing to women but also works with improving women's
leadership positions.
"Our campaign is to change leadership one woman at
a time," said event moderator Cheryl Mills, senior vice
president of Oxygen and former deputy counsel to
President Clinton.
Oxygen will be in Nashville tomorrow for the next
date in the tour.

LAURIE BRESCOLL/Daily
Ohio State University Prof. Peter Swire, who was former
President Bill Clinton's chief privacy counselor, speaks
yesterday about anti-terror laws passed since Sept. 11.
security, and when surveillance infringes on their freedom."
Rezmierski said faculty as well as students have to work
with law enforcement officials to gain an understanding of
what the act means.
- Lauren Carbone contributed to this report for the Daily.

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LICENSES
Continued from Page 1.
by the Michigan Liquor Control Com-
mission found that store clerks in the
Detroit area sold alcohol to minors in
283 out of 564 attempts - more than
half the time. In 55 of those attempts,
the clerk sold the minor alcohol after
checking identification that indicated
the person was indeed under 21.
Bennett points to the success of 13
other states using vertical licenses.
Chief among these is Virginia, which
implemented the system in 1998.
Ronnie Hall, a spokesman for the
Virginia Department of Motor Vehi-
cles, said business owners in that state
had conveyed "very positive" feedback
for the program.
According to a press release from
Bennett's office, the proposal has
encountered no opposition within the
legislature and its supporters include
the Michigan Liquor Control Commis-
sion, the secretary of state, Mothers
Against Drunk Driving, the Michigan

Co!alition to Reduce Underage Drink-
ing, the Michigan Association of Con-
venience Stores, the Michigan Beer
and Wine Wholesalers Association,
the Michigan Licensed Beverage
Association, the Michigan Grocers
Association and the Michigan Distrib-
utors and Vendors Association.
Although Classens could not antici-
pate how much the bill would affect
the purchase of restricted substances
by minors, he said that "it will make it
extremely difficult for underage people
to buy. We feel nearly impossible."
Despite Bennett's confidence in the
bill, many students and Ann Arbor
business owners are skeptical that the
new format of the driver's licenses
would have much effect.
"I don't think it'll be effective at all
because ... people who are obtaining
alcohol and cigarettes underage are not
using their IDs,': said Tom Massie, an
LSA freshman.
"People buy liquor through other
people, so that way isn't going to stop
because you just find a friend who is

over 21," said LSA freshman Paul
Crawford.
Jerome Kamano, owner of Diag
Party Shoppe, said that although
underage consumption of alcohol and
tobacco may have been a problem on
campus several years ago, the local
government has since then taken
ample means to control it. He also was
reluctant to believe that the revised
licenses would curtail the purchase of
alcohol by minors in stores.
"It'll control it a lot in the bars, but
(people) are still going to find people
to buy for them," he said. Neverthe-
less, Kamano expressed support for
the bill. "I think it's an excellent idea,"
he said.
In addition to students and business
owners, the Ann Arbor Police Depart-
ment was also hesitant to back the bill.
Sgt. Michael Logghe said most minors
"use someone else's (license) like an
older brother's or sister's." Still, he
thought the bill had merit as an experi-
ment.
"It isn't going to hurt," he said.

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HEARING
Continued from Page 1
In both cases, intervenors have added a third angle. Rep-
resenting the interests of minority high school students
applying to the University, the intervenors are from several
groups, including the American Civil Liberties Union and
the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational
Fund. They argued in support of the University's admis-
sions policies but did not join the University's case because
their reasons for supporting affirmative action differ.
The intervenors believe race should be used to remedy
past wrongs. The University only maintains that racial
diversity enhances the learning experience of all students,
and taking race into account when considering applicants is
a viable means of ensuring diversity in the student body.
After numerous delays, both cases were heard at the dis-
trict court level, Gratz in November 2000 and Grutter in
January and February this year.
Both CIR and the University claimed victory in Decem-
ber 2000 when U.S. District Judge Patrick Duggan ruled
that the use of race in admissions was constitutional but
struck down LSA's former grid system of evaluating candi-
dates. Duggan did not uphold the intervenors' claim that
using race as a factor in admissions is necessary to make up
for past discrimination.
CIR is appealing Duggan's ruling that race-conscious
admissions policies to achieve a diverse student body is
constitutional. The University is appealing the Duggan's
ruling that its grid system was unconstitutional. The inter-
venors are appealing the judge's dismissal of their reasoning
for affirmative action.
In March, the University suffered "a total loss" when
U.S. District Judge Bernard Friedman ruled that the Law
School's admissions policies were unconstitutional. The
University and the intervenors are both appealing that
decision.

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"You're getting a superficial
diversity of skin colors...
You're getting the son of Colin
Powell, not an inner-city kid."
- Curt Levey
CIR attorney
tive action but about its use in University admissions.
"We're not against affirmative action. That word is tossed
around a lot, but that word means a lot more than racial
preferences," Levey said. "We are against a practicing form
of affirmative action which is explicitly promotes practices
such as colleges awarding 20 points for skin color."
Levey said he does not believe affirmative action effec-
tively promotes a racially diverse campus.
"You're not really getting a diverse student body. You're
getting a superficial diversity'of skin colors, but for the
most part, you're getting upper-middle class students.
You're getting the son of Colin Powell, not an inner-city
kid," he said.
Previous cases
The split decisions in the Michigan cases at the district
court level reflect numerous rulings and movements across
the country.
All the cases revolve around 1978's Bakke v. California,
which found that the use of quotas to achieve diversity was
unconstitutional. Justice Lewis Powell wrote in his opinion
that using race as one of many factors to attain diversity is a
compelling state interest.
In Hopwood v. Texas, the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals
ruled in 1996 that the University of Texas' admissions poli-
cies were unconstitutional as the result of a CIR lawsuit.
The U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear the case, and Texas
officially dropped its defense of the suit last week.
In Smith v. Washington, again backed by CIR, the 9th Cir-
cuit Court of Appeals ruled that the University of Washing-
ton could use race as one of many factors in determining
admission. But Initiative 200, a 1998 voter-approved ban of
affirmative action in higher education statewide prevented
the ruling from having any effect on the university. The

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PPIy. Three sides
University Deputy General Counsel Liz Barry said she is
confident in the processes used for admissions to the Uni-
versity and hopes the court will understand the necessity of
affirmative action at the university level.
"The central issue is whether universities are going to be
permitted to take race into account as far as educational
abilitv" she said. "Michigan has made the best case for that

I