Jeremi The following is an interview conduct- ed by the Daily last week with Jeremy Rifkin, one of eight national coordinators of the People's Bicentennial Commis- sion. Included in this transcript are quotations from Mr. Rifkin's remarks at a public meeting in Pendleton Library last Wednesday evening. The interview is in question and answer form; other quotations are set off by quote marks. By MARNIE-HEYN and ANN MARIE LIPINSKI Given an appointed president and a Congress that was elected, in a time of great civil stress, by 20 per cent of the electorate, where do we go from here? I think the economic bankruptcy of our system has been demonstrated fairly conclusively; does our most recent election demonstrate a similar political bankruptcy? Considering the documents with which we began as a nation, the civil rights, the concept of government, isn't our present situation the tail end from which we slide into totalitarianism? NO, I THINK WE go right back to be- ginnings. In psychological terms, we face pretty much the same thing, under the same conditions, that people faced in 1775. They had gone through a decade of protest, the 1760's, with all the student strikes and riots. They had their own watershed event, the Boston massacre, almost 200 years to the month before Kent State; four people were killed and everybody quit the movement and said "I don't know if it's worth giving my life." They went through the silent years, as historians call the period from 1771 to 1773. In 1773, the government leaked out secret documents outlining a massive plan to repress the civil liberties of the people; these were distributed to every newspaper in the colonies and sent shock waves through the people. They survived the first multinational corpora- tion, the East India Company, going bankrupt and getting a legal monopoly on the tea trade, with a tax. They went R ifk~in: 1776-1976 through inflation riots in 1774 and 1775; great monopolies, profit gouging, loss of faith in all government, in the aristo- cracy. "THE FIRST BILL of Rights, estab- lished during the revolution precipitated the birth of the first women's organiza- tions, including the Daughters of Lib- erty; the first free medical services: abolition groups; and the first prison reform groups. What we have to do is ask ourselves, 'What were the principles that these people were fighting for, and which ones are still applicable today?' I happen to think that a lot of them are still very important and crucial today. What they were never able to do is the unfinished business of the Ameri- can Revolution. And for those who think there is no unfinished business, that the Revolution was a success, I ask these three questions; Do you believe in demo- cracy?, Do you believe in the principle of one person, one vote?, Do you think that your vote has the same weight as Exxon, GM, and ITT have? If you think about those questions it becomes pretty obvious that we're existing under a gov- ernment with four branches - Execu- tive, Judicial, Legislative, and Corpor- ate." THE INTERESTING thing is that the odds they faced seem to overwhelm them. They couldn't imagine an alterna- tive to the monarchy; after all, there'd been no democracy since ancient Greece. Except for Iceland. EXCEPT FOR ICELAND. I don't want to poke holes in your argument for the sake of historical ac- curacy, but Iceland always gets left out. AS RICHARD NIXON said when he went to Iceland - here was a great moment for Iceland on the world map, the first time an American president visited there - the guy was punch drunk and got up in front of the inter- national press, you might remember, and he said, "This is a proud moment. This is the first moment in American history dent has set foot on Ireland." He just went on with his talk; nobody corrected him. All the PR value was blown. He was a s.... He still is. HAVE YOU seen the bumper sticker "Free the Clot?" It's really sick, the sort of thing Lenny Bruce would have thought up..Where were we? What happened back then is that fin- ally average people - Tom Paine, a corset maker, Abigail Adams, a house- wife, Ben Franklin, a printer -- decided they were going to take control over their lives. They created a political force, and they overthrew the greatest empire the world had known at that time. Getting back to 1975, you're asking what can be done, nobody's voting any more. That's not precisely what I'm ask- Ing. I'm saying, we've done this once. Do you think that people are going to get together the energy and the creativity to pull a new democratic, representative, humane form of government out of the hat? I BELIEVE that within 24 months there's going to be a full-scale radical political movement based in middle America, what Nixon called the Silent Majority, to fundamentally challenge the basic economic nature of the country. I think it's going to make the new left look like the Little League in terms of militancy. It's going to make the stu- dent movement look like nothing. And I think the People's Bicentennial Com- mission is the tip of the iceberg. We've proven that you can get to millions of middle Americans. If we talk forth- right, straight, don't pull any punches, and talk about the issues, then people will respond, will join, will mobilize. We've just demonstrated the potential. I'd like to hear about some of the places where you've seen that mobiliza- tion. TAKE A LOOK at the Boston Tea Party last December. The city of Boston teamed up with the Salada Tea Com- pany to bring us the 200th anniversary of the Boston Tea Party and do a nice public relations bit for the national press. The Massachusetts PBC decided it was going to have the first Boston Oil Par- ty. They called for the first massive demonstration against Big Business since the Depression. The city of Boston said, "We know they can't pull that off, be- cause Time magazine says the New Left is dead." There hadn't been a demon- stration in Boston in four years. And even on a nice spring day at the peak of the Moratorium movement, they could only get twenty thousand people out. The city figured there wasn't going to be a demonstration. The day of the Boston Tea Party, and what we were calling the Boston Oil Party, came around. A northeast bliz- zard hit Boston, a mean ice blizzard. The police looked up the financial dis- trict, and they estimated that they saw 35,000 protestors against Big Business. Working people, families, taxpayers and students - most of them had never de- monstrated before in their lives - were out in a blizzard. I believe that that is the most dramatic demonstration of our potential. AND I BELIEVE this spring we're going to see mobilizations leading up to April 19, the 200th anniversary of the shot heard round the world, when we predict a hundred thousand Americans will show up in Lexington for an anti- corporate rally which will have the same sort of effect that Martin Luther King's 1963 march had on the civil rights move- ment. I think there will be rallies around the country. I believe we will see a nationwide Continental Congress emerge sometime in the next two years to forge a common platform of rights and griev- ances for working people in this coun- try. Let's talk about Boston. Granted, I perceive that we as a society are going to witness and undergo a lot of fer- ment. But I'm afraid that the social fer- ment will not be like America in 1775, but like Germany in 1932. I think that what's going on in Boston is the tip of that iceberg. YOU MEAN THE busing stuff that's going on. Yes. West Virginia is another g o o d example. How can we - little people, no money, not a lot of clout, no general election for two years - exert influ- ence so that the ferment isn't going to mean holocaust? "THOMAS PAINE, Thomas Jefferson, who was a printer, and Abigail Adams were all instrumental in starting the revolution 200 years ago, and you ask, "I believe that within 24 months there's going to be a full-scale radical political movement based in middle America, what Nixon called the Silent Majority, to f unda- mentally challenge the basic economic nature of the country." r::::::-:f :X":'.^:}:": a::v:::":'{:';>C;'r}}:-i:."{'r,':{:": i ai i"':}}}i.".}} :{ .; } lY/.:":: " f ,:::::,:::":}{ ";:: . t5}:/.:: :r . .. ":"'}'"' " r~i/I :r...::f." 4}'r, {:>:r, "."+f. 'What can we do?' We have the power to do the exact same thing they did, and more. Furthermore, we're in such a vulnerable position right now that we have no choice but to act. We're at the end of the line. As I see it, we can do one of two things. We could sit around waiting for that man on the white horse, or we can start now to see ourselves as leaders and take action. And the time is right because the Bicentennial is a platform we'll never have again. But people al- ways want to know what kinds of mas- sive action they can take. How the hell do I know? Anyone who thinks there's a utopian answer is crazy. All we can do is start with small poli- tical action, start forming small busi- ness constituencies and then go on from there. You have to begin on a small scale. That was the problem with the post-Kent State revolution. It triggered a national catharsis. It happened too fast for people to absorb it, and by claim- ing that a real revolution was happening, false hope was created. BUT WE HAVE to start now by ex- hausting every possible remedy under the democratic system, electoral and non-electoral, legal and non-legal, mili- tant, but not violent, and then see what happens. It is not difficult to imagine all of us who are uncontented with the corporate economical system getting to- gether, and forming a mass political movement. And if you start to feel help- less, just think about how the Chinese must have felt before their revolution." The reason any revolutionary move- ment succeeds has nothing to do with guns. Any time a revolutionary move- ment can convince the people that it is the legitimate heir to the tradition, the history and the promise that's been un- kept, then it wins the minds and hearts of the people. The way institutions and people stay in power is by convincing people that they're the legitimate heirs. Once they are stripped of that, the revolutionary movement can claim legitimacy, and all the guns in the world can't keep tyrants in power. The revolution will win. Same here. The 60's wasn't a revolutionary period in this country. It was a support, a cheerleading movement for t h i r g world struggles. There was no revolution- ary ideology eked out. That's why so many of us flipped out; one day we were Maoists, the next day we were some- thing else. Tomorrow: Patriotism in the 20th century. Eighty-four years of editorial freedom Edited and managed by students at the University of Michigan Wednesday, November 20, 1974 News Phone: 764-0552 420 Maynard St., Ann Arbor, Mi. 48104 Ford candor gap revealed Sneaky tests pigeonhole students MOST AMERICANS believe that President Ford is honest, at least. The country heaved a sigh of relief when "Honest Jerry" took the reins of leadership from "Tricky Dick" last summer. There was a feeling that the credibility gap would be closed. Not so, according to an article in the Nation. The author of this article contends that Ford has a candor gap. When testifying before the House Judiciary Committee on his pardon of Richard Nixon, he gave vague re- sponses to questions asked by Repre- sentative Elizabeth Holtzman (D- N Y.) about two meetings he had while he was still Vice President. The first meeting was held on Au- gust 7 with General Haig, the sec- ond, the following day with Michigan Senator Robert Griffin. The hypothesis has been raised that General Haig discussed the pos- sibility of President Nixon being par- doned before he resigned. Ford desir- ed Congressional approval, so he conferred with Senator Griffin. THERE HAS BEEN suspicion of such a deal between Ford and Nixon since the pardon. Skeptics include columnist Sol Friedman. It seemed Ford wanted to trade amnesty for draft evaders for amnesty for Nixon. Since the Johnson Administration, the executive office has been plagued by a credibility gap. With Nixon that gap became a yawning chasm. When Ford became President, many people felt the White House would return to the old American virtue of hon- esty. Unfortunately, there hopes don't seem to have been fulfilled. -STEVE ROSS TODAY'S STAFF: By BOB BLACK and KATHLEEN KOLAR EVERY SUMMER thousands of fresh- persons take the OAIS test (Opinion, Aptitude, and Interest Survey) - the one that asks whether you like raw or cooked carrots. The "Oasis" test used to be compulsory, and still is for students in some schools like Nursing and En- gineering. Even for the rest, the cir- cumstances engineered bythe Orienta- tion Office render the test semi-com- pulsory. OAIS is administered with var- ious placement tests in one session, and students taking any tests are required to sit through all of them. Bu even those who willingly took the. test are victims of fraud - because OAIS measures much more than the students are told about. Besides the scores discussed in the OAIS Student's Guide (creativity, achievement, etc.), the test yields three secret "psychological adjustment" scores: "Social Adjust- ment," "Emotional Adjustment," and "Masculine Orientation." Students are duped into exposing (to counselors, Health Service physicians and various busybodies) dimensions of their person- alities which they never agreed to re- veal. THE SCORES (and even the fact that they exist) are withheld from students, according to the OAIS Counselor's Guide, because they are so "complex and per- sonal" that misinterpretation "would probably be quite frequent and possibly serious unless considerably more were said about them in the Student's Guide than space would permit." Yet academic counselors receive only a half-page ex- planation in the Counselor's Guide, though they usually have no more psy- chological training than students. What do these scores purport to mea- sure? "Social Adjustment" predicts pop- ularity: high scorers "usually get along well with others and tend to be well- liked by their classmates." Even sup- posing a student's popularity is such a useful fact for counselors and others that they should know it as a matter of course - which we doubt - the person to ask is the individual student, who alone should decide if the matter is any of the counselor's business. "Emotional adjustment" probes more deeply, tapping feelings of anxiety, se- curity, and emotional stability. A low score might lead a counselor to suggest Orientation." It measures conformity to the attitudes typical of one's sex, i.e., the extent to which one answers ques- tions the same way as others of the same sex. High scorers "tend to be aggres- sive, independent, rough, inconsiderate, unpolished, mechanically inclined, and interested in athletics, the out-of-doors," etc. Low scorers "tend to be bashful, submissive, modest, dependent, docile, sensitive, patient, and interested in books, cultural matters, and helping oth- ers." This scale has more noxious features than we have space to discuss. Why was a test of sex conformity labelled a test of masculine orientation? Since high scores are good and low scores bad "High scorers tend to be aggressive, independent, rough, inconsiderate, unpolished, mechanically inclined, and interested in athletics, the out of doors.' Low scorers 'tend to be bashful, submissive, modest, dependent, do- cile, sensitive, patient and interested in books, cultural matters and helping others."' ,r ,.;. y . : ;;.; vr. ,:;: :..;.; vi'?":"?4:v :" : <"i{:;:{;i;:;$:;:;'trC.Yr:> e "::%{i:{?!::::":{:i;} }4 based channeling only registered the status quo, but in fact it reproduces it. According to Friecke, objective tests "personalize the educational experience." But insofar as the distribution of psy- chological traits is a function of racial, sexual and class status, "objective" test- ing recreates the unjust and arbitrary assignment of life-chances that it was supposed to eliminate. BUT EVEN if OAIS scores had nothing to do with race, sex or class, and even if they accurately established what type of personality one has, such scores should never be used to make decisions about people. Treatment of people should depend on what they do, not what they tional Adjustment" to the detriment of students. Dr. Fricke himself isn't entirely free of a prurient interest in student psyches, unrelated to counseling purposes. He told us that when he hears of a student "in trouble" with the law - his example was an (accused) student arsonist - he often checks the student's scores for signs of maladjustment. In 1972, of course, there was a well-publicized case of a student charged with arson. The image of Fricke or othersdrummaging through the records of students in the public eye leaves us somewhat uneasy. FINALLY, DAIS scores are made available to psychological researchers without the knowledge or consent of the students and without compensation. Fricke defends this practice by saying that "nobody ever claimed the test was solely for the student's benefit." (No- body ever claimed otherwise, either.) Further, wholly unauthorized persons oc- casionally obtain the scores. There are rumors of two Engineering students who impersonated each other and obtained at least the nonsecret scores. But the fundamental objection to the OAIS secret scores is that nobody has the right to expose another's personality by fraud or intimidation, or obtain a covert, compulsory diagnosis of some- one's psychological attributes. T h e carrot jokes ring hollow to us. At this point, students have several courses of action. Students who were coerced into tak- ing OAIS, or misled about its true char- acter, might wish to explore possible legal remedies with a lawyer. Under the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act, which goes into effect on Nov. 21, students have the right to inspect "all official records, files, and data," including scores on "psychological tests." Since the University has strong- ly hinted it will defy the new law, stu- dents will have to take legal and per- haps political action to enforce their rights. Dr. Fricke has ignored or refused several requests to see OAIS secret scores, suggesting he won't end the cover-up without legal compulsion or political pressure. Students should, nev- ertheless, address their claims to him (3014 Rackham) wheii the law takes effect. on the other OAIS scores, why are high scores arranged to be "masculine" and low scores "feminine" on this scale? More important, what conceivable use could there be for such scores which would not be sexist? Dr. Benno Fricke, creator of OAIS and Director of the Evaluation and Examinations Office, openly admits that the typical use of this score would be to channel stu- dents into educational and occupational slots already; dominated by similarly- oriented persons. DR. FRICKE'S own example is the En- gineering freshperson who, while aca- demically well qualified for engineering, has a very low masculine orientation. The counselor, knowing that engineers tend to have a high masculine orienta- tion, is supposed to tell the student that he or she might be "uncomfortable" in Engin school, that the other students are. Psychological minorities are entit- led to equal rights under the educa- tional and occupational systems, just as they deserve equal justice under the law. There are other problems with OAIS. Like other "soft" tests, it is open to technical criticism. Many counselors con- sider it useless. The correspondence of scores with "real" personality attribut- es is a matter of statistical probability only, and many students aren't what their scores say they are. Besides, the test is administered to well-schooled high school students before they begin to experience the life of the University and of the Ann Arbor community. Even ori- ginally accurate findings become in- creasingly obsolete as time passes. ACCESS TO THE scores by unauthoriz- ed persons, or their use for improper purposes are problems which can be minimized but not eliminated. Scores ar rn,tinplv made ava1~piablet aadm- ' 1 '*\1.\ \ \. ,,u G \\\\\\\\\\ 1y \\\\ .."^.,. . " " .",,, ,5.+... iI(J 1 4 yi . .l.. r3t