W Knauss looks forward to 08 postS.. . Eighty years of editorial freedom Edited and managed by stUdents at the University of Michigan ROBERT- L. KNAUSS' office on the fourth floor of the Administration Bldg. is a curious mixture of clean architectural lines and strictly function- al furniture suppliedby the University, all decorated with drawings by his chil- dren. On Friday afternoon, Knauss lit up a cigar and proceeded to answer care- fully, searchingly-almost hesitatingly at times-the questions put to him by Editorial Page Editor, Jim Neubacher, and Daily reporters Dave Chudwin and Michael Schneck. DAILY: The OSS vice presidencyis a job that other candidates have looked at ap- prehensively. It's a tight position. You'll be sort of in-between opposing sides, and with the campus climate the way it is yours won't be an easy job. What makes you want to take a position like this? KNAUSS: As I learned more about the job, I became more convinced, that there was something I could contribute. I think people tend to see the job as being one of handling a crisis situation, or being someone who's expendable in order to save the president's neck. Those are clearly roles that the vice presi- dent has to play, but another major part of the job is just running the office and it's in this area that I'm convinced that there are some very positive things that can be done as far as providing better kinds of services. I think a third aspect of the job is that of an executive officer giving advice and information on a wide variety of issues. I think that I can be of some help in this area. DAILY: Do you think it possible to retain the confidence of the students, the other executive officers, and the Regents over an appreciable period of time? KNAUSS: I think it's possible to main- tain the respect of all groups. I'm sure it's not possible that all parts of all groups are going to agree with the things that the vice president is doing. It may be the case that the extent of the disagreement will get so great, that the vice president cannot be ef- fective in the job. DAILY: If the OSS Policy Board asks for your resignation, will you comply? KNAUSS: I think that the statement that I've made several times publicly is even broader. If I find that I am no longer ef- fective, in working with the Regents, working with the President and the other executive Officers, or working with the Policy Board, I will resign. This may become evident to me before any group asks for my resignation. DAILY: Then you're saying that a deci- sion concerning your resignation is basically In your hands, not at the request of the Policy Board? KNAUSS: I think that if I am asked to "If 1 find tholt I am no long er effective in working with the Regents, working with the Preside nt and the other executive officers, or work- ing with the Policy Board, I will resign." resign by any of my constituencies-the Regents, the President, the Policy Board- I will resign. DAILY: Do you think that you'll be vice president for any amount of time then? KNAUSS: There might be a relatively short half-life to this job, and I'm going intoit with this expectation. I'm keeping my office in the Law School and I intend to teach a course. DAILY: Some.people view the vice presi- dent as' a kind of go-between who funnels the views of students to the Regents and the other executive officers. What do you think of this conception of the role? KNAUSS: The vice presiaent is certainly goikg to be presenting views and concerns of students to other members of the ad- ministration. What I see as more important role for the vice president and his staff is not trying to present views of students, but of- fering aid and assistance so students can present their own views. For example, I think there ought to be staff people in the OSS who have primary responsibility of working with the various black student groups. I would not expect that this person would be necessarily pre- senting their views. What he'd be doing is offering staff assistance and helping to co- ordinate so these groups can present their own positions. They've also talked in that office about having someone to work with Women's Lib groups and other radical groups on campus. DAILY: The Policy Board will have a student majority. Will you be bound by the decisions of the Policy Board? KNAUSS: Yes. I expect that the Policy Board will be setting policy within the OSS. This may mean that I might strongly dis- agree with some things that are happening. The disagreement might become the kind of major issue where either the Policy Board or myself is going to have to back down and change our mind. I think it's important when you talk about Office of Student Services, ROTC doesn't fall under it.r Perhaps as an executive officer, I will be concerned with it. As far as the Policy Board is concerned, however, this is not something within the jurisdiction of the OSS. DAILY: A major first step by the students on the new Policy Board will be personnel questions. We understand that it will prob- ably ask for the resignations of two upper level bureaucrats in the OSS. Would you be adverse to this? KNAUSS: I don't see a major confronta- tion on this. I think that there does need to be some reorganization in the office. This reorganization is very likely to include the reassignment of function. I suppose in cer- tain instances the personnel there may not be in a position to be able to fulfill the new functions, so there may have to be changes of personnel. DAILY: In the housing office, there is the question of University construction of low- cost student housing and single student apartments. Those areas of policy-making, as far as you are concerned, fall under the jurisdiction of the OSS and consequently, the Policy Board. KNAUSS: I think it would. This was one of the main reasons for setting up the Policy Board. It's basically a student decision, what kind of housing students want. I don't have any preconceived notions about what kind of housing is needed. DAILY: It's been traditional that the University not compete with Ann Arbor merchants, landlords, community people. In the past year this policy seems to have broken down with the University Store and Bookstore. The whole issue in the housing office is whether the University should com- pete with local landlords. Should the University compete with the community in trying to obtain a better deal, a fairer deal for the students? KNAUSS: I think the consumer protec- tion, the consumer interested projects that have taken place In the last year-the book- store, the Student Credit Union, the co-op- are very good developments. But they are basically moves by the University community itself to use its own purchasing power to provide some competitive leverage. There hasn't been any direct University subsidy for these things. DAILY: Does the University have a re- sponsibility to see that the students are well-housed? KNAUSS: The University has taken the view that it has this responsibility. This was the reason the residence hall structure was built up in the '30's. It has now become more of a shared responsibility with the com- munity. Perhaps the real qustion we're facing now is priority decision-making on how money should be spent. Should the University continue to expend funds for housing? " Within my own office we ar going to be trying to make some evaluations ourselves. A new University-wide resource allocation commission which has been formed-faculty and students are being appointed to it this month-is going to be looking into this area. DAILY: Right now, the top housing prior- ity, according to Mrs. Newell, is single stu- dent apartments. Is this top priority in your view? KNAUSS: I have not studied the housing situation within the University that closely. I've heard a wide variety of opinion among students as to what they believe they need at this point. I would like to get some good information on this. (later) Right now, there's a proposal to build some more married student housing. This apparently has been identified by a committee working with the housing office as the most pressing need. I guess that whatever is identified as the most pressing need should be the next step. DAILY: Let us assume that the Policy Board states that it would like to se the financial aids office and the admissions office moved under the jurisdiction of the OSS. So you agree in principle with that request? KNAUSS: As-you know, financial aids was in the Office of Student Affairs until it was moved recently. I think the rationale for combining it with admissions under Vice President (Stephen) Spurr is a sound one. I don't think it makes much difference where it sits. As you know, the Senate As- sembly is going to be talking about a policy committee for Vice President Spurr. The current plan is that this will be a committee made up equally of students and faculty members. DAILY: How strong a role will you take in administering your office. Will you take an activist role in establishing priorities and working with the directors of the various offices in OSS? KNAUSS: I see myself in a strong activist role. You have to have good directors, and you have to give them autonomy. But the Policy Board and I will be wanting to look into specific areas. Serious thought is being given, for example, to a student-faculty policy board for the housing office. DAILY: What are some of the specific changes you would like to make? KNAUSS: There are maybe three or four things I would like to do immediately. I want to get the Policy Board established as soon as possible. I would hope I could get an assistant vice president who is a black and who would be involved coordinating the problems of black students, but in addition ficer, you'll be asked to give your opinions on matters outside of the area strictly de- fined by the OSS. KNAUSS: Yes, and in this sense, I will be independent. I will be giving my opinions to the Regents when called upon, to tlhe Presi- dent, and to the other executive officers and to the OSS Policy Board. DAILY: Let's talk about some of those kinds of issues then. The Regent's Interim Disciplinary Rules for example. What do you think, first, about the rules, and second- ly, about the way they were adopted? KNAUSS: My feeling about the rules themselves is that I'm not sure that they were necessary. They do go somewhat be- yond the established rules, which were basically, taken from the language of the SGC rules. The real issue is the hearing officer. That took away the questions of sanctions and discipline out of the hands of the schools and colleges, away from the faculty, putting it in the hands of an outside hearing officer. There is currently a committee looking at this. It has two Regents on it, and faculty, and students, and I think they are working in good faith to develop new procedures. I am hopeful that this committee will make a report shortly. DAILY: In what directions should a new disciplinary policy go? KNAUSS: I don't think I should comment on this. I'm not on the committee. These people are working in good faith. They've put a lot of time in on this and I think I'd like to wait until they've made their report. DAILY: What's your opinion of the philo- sophy held by many students that students charged with non-academic offenses should be tried by an all-student judiciary? KNAUSS: I guess what you're asking me is if my views have changed any in the last year. As you know, I was on the ad hoc student-faculty committee that drafted the original bylaws (which called for an all-stu- dent judiciary.) Senate Assembly at that time approved those bylaws. I think as far as effectiveness goes, an all-student judiciary would probably be as effective as any other kind of mix that you could have. Whether or not politically at this point, compared to a year or a year and and half ago, an all student judiciary is acceptable within the community is, I suppose, one of the top issues wthat is be- fore the committee. DAILY: Have you read the American Bar Association Report on Student Rights and Responsibilities? Do you think what the Re- gents did on the disciplinary rules was a step forward or a step backwards, in terms of the suggestions put forth in the ABA report? KNAUSS: The ABA report wai mainly concerned with due process requirements and other aspects of the judicial hearings. I think the Interim Rules and the judicial system within the Interim Rules do not go beyond what the ABA report was talking about. And I think that the hearing officer concept is a perfectly viable one. The prin- ciple objection is that a judicial system needs to have acceptance. That particular judicial system (hearing officer) could work, it's a reasonable one. I think there are a variety of judicial sys- tems, we could have that would work, that would be effective, that would be fair, that could make determinations about guilt and innocence and could mete out reasonable kinds of sanctions and penalties. DAILY: Among them would be an all stu- dent judiciary?, KNAUSS: An all student judiciary is one of them that could be effective. What the interim rules lacked at that time was a general acceptance within the community. I don't know what will come out of the com- mittee that's working right now. I think the virtue, however, of getting that group to- gethervand working on the issue, is that whatever comes out will hopefully gain ac- ceptance., DAILY: Couldn't some of the Interim Rules be described as "chilling"9 KNAUSS: If you're just talking about the }rules themselves, well, I could conceive of the new University Council drafting rules that would be almost word-for-word iden- tical, and it wouldn't have a chilling effect. I think the judicial system, which provides for a hearing officer and does provide for due process, isn't particularly chilling. Some of the other things, such as the new state legislation concerning campus con- duct, can have a chilling effect. DAILY: Do you think that ROTC is ap- propriate for a university campus? Should the University subsidize ROTC if the de- fense department will not pay for its full costs? KNAUSS: I think the report of the aca- demic affairs committee that Senate Assembly passed last year was a good 420 Maynard St., Ann Arbor, Mich. News Phone: 764-0552 Editorials printed in The Michigan Daily express the individual opinions of staff writers or the editors. This must be noted in all reprints. TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 15, 1970 NIGHT EDITOR: JIM BEATTIE #1 report. Now there were a variety of specific recommendations. What it's basically say- ing it that ROTC should not receive any special privileges on the University campus - special privileges in'the sense of pro- viding credit for the courses they're giving, providing a financial contribution from the University, things of that nature. I think this makes sense. DAILY: What if the defense departmtnt refuses to fund all of the cost of ROTC? KNAUSS: I think the University should make every effort to get to do this. If the University is unsuccessful over the next year at being able to negotiate the full payment of finances, I think this is something we've got to look at again and>look at very care- fully, as to what steps do we take at that time. This is basically the approach of the Assembly, directing the University to do this. DAILY: Should the University play host, as far, as recruiting, to any corporation or group regardless of their policies or prac- tices? KNAUSS: I think the, University as an institution should not pick and choose among outsiders that it allows to come in and recruit as long as the groups recruiting are not violating any laws. I think the University should, for example, insist on non-discrimination in sex and race as a condition of recruiting. My own personal view on recruiting is that the University should not really give any special privileges to recruiting. I think that more of the cost of ,the recruiting should be borne by those coming in. But I look on recruiting as basically a service that's being provided for students. DAILY: You say the University should not pick and choose as to who should use University facilities. What about the Gay Liberation Front? Should the University decide to pick and choose in allowing stu- dent organizations to use facilities? KNAUSS: I think that student organiza- tions that are operating in good faith should be able to make use of University facilities. DAILY: Then you would disagree w i t h President Fleming's contention that the Gay Liberation Front should not be al- lowed University facilities for a midwest conference on homosexuality? KNAUSS: I think if you go back and look at the question as it came"up that there are a variety of issues surrounding that. It is one issue, by the way, that is apt to come up in the near future. I think it is perfectly proper to deter- mine first of all, the extent to which this is a legitimate student or faculty group. There is certainly no obligation on the part of the University to allow outsiders to use its facilities. I think that the University can insist that a group using its facilities is operating in good faith. I also think that the University can have a policy that insists there be some educational ties to the use of its facilities. DAILY: Do you think classified research is consistent with the concept of a univer- sity as a community of scholars engaged in free inquiry? KNAUSS: The current policy on classi- field research is a pretty good one. The operation of the Senate Assembly classified research committee has been a satisfactory one. That committee will be reviewing its own functions soon. DAILY: When shoulld police be brought in on campus" and who should be con- sulted on such occasions? KNAUSS: University Council or a sub= group of University Council, when t i m e permits, should be consulted as a mini- mum. You may want to bring in people from the political groups who may be able to in- fluence the parties involved. Only in the most unusual circumstances should police be brought except as needed to protect individuals or prevent the on-going damage of property: You can't draw sharp lines. What's needed are people who can analyze the particular situation. 4 ...as Newell recalls two hectic years BARBARA NEWELL sat in her office, her books in packing cases, a black statue of a clenched fist on a table behind her. Mrs. Newell's natural optimism seemed tem- pered by the realities and cares of two years of problems as acting vice president for student services. The following interview was conducted by Daily reporter Dave Chudwin. DAILY: You have been two years in an act- ing post as vice president for student ser- vices, what are your plans now? NEWELL: I expect to go back onto Presi- dent Fleming's staff. DAILY: As a special assistant? NEWELL: I don't know whether that's special or not. DAILY: What do you see as the r o 1 e of the vice president for student services? NEWELL: I see a multiple role - one as a strong spokesman for student concerns re- lating to all University policies and second- ly as an administrator of student services. DAILY: Is it possible for a person in such a position to retain the confidence of the stu- dents, the other executive officers and the Regents all at once for a long period of time. NEWELL: I think there is a very real prob- lem of conflict between the vice president as a representative of students and the vice president as an employe of the Regents. DAILY: After two years, how are your re- lations with the Regents? NEWELL: I think we have a remarkable Board of Regents here at the University. They have showed understanding and com- passion. They are unique, comparing them with boards of regents elsewhere.' Obviously there have been times when I have not agreed with their decisions and have felt the conflict of the role. DAILY: Do the other executive officers have this problem? NEWELL: I think it is more acute with the student affairs person. DAILY: How have your relations fared with President Fleming and the other executive officers? Have there been any strains? NEWELL: (Laughing) Oh, go ask them. I think this University has remarkably good teamwork. DAILY: What are your views on the Re- gents Interim Disciplinary Policy? NEWELL: At the time they occurred I was most concerned about the enactment of in- terim rules without an involvement of the affected parties. The actual rules deserve careful consideration as possible alternatives for a solution. DAILY: Then the interim rules might be considered models for a longterm policy? NEWELL: I think they should be considered as one avenue of thought. I really think they' aren't that bad. DAILY: Why w e r e you quoted as saying that you thought the interim rules were re- layman sitting on the sidelines I don't see any reason the students alone should be singled out as the appropriate unit. DAILY: What is the deep, dark process by which decisions are made at the University? Is each vice president given a free hand? When does President Fleming decide it is his responsibility to look into something? NEWELL: You have to look at what decis- ions you're talking about. The most cru- cial decisions are made on the department and school level. This is where' your prior- ities are set in an educational institution because this is your most important task. Other decisions are tremendously varied according to the classification of the prob- lem. You'll find extensive consultation by department, by school, and t h e n in the council of deans which meets regularly with the President and vice presidents. You'll find another channel that's also through the faculty government, which also meets regularly with the President and the advisory committees to the various v i c e presidents. I think one of the problems from the stu- dent point of view is how to adequately in- corporate the student voice in the numer- ous decision - making channels because there's just not one. DAILY: What is your opinion on the re- fusal of the University to allow the Gay Lib- eration Front use of facilities for a midwest conference on homosexuality? NEWELL: I can see the sensitivity of use of University facilities, especially when oth- er facilities are available. As an individual I find it difficult not to make public fa- cilities available to all segments of the com- munity for lawful activities. DAILY: What do you think of the ROTC question? NEWELL: I happen to have the personal conviction that ROTC is not an academic pursuit appropriate to a University campus. But I feel the decision should be made by the whole community. DAILY: Do you think the University has a responsibility to students to see that they, are well-housed? NEWELL: Yes I do, and if you look at the last year, we have been able to take steps to expand married student housing by close to 3,000 units. DAILY: What are the possibilities of the University building single student apart- ment housing? Does the University have plans for that? NEWELL: We certainly. have plans, we have been working diligently on it for two years. I would say that our next priority is single student housing. Our m a j o r problem is the problem of funding. There are no funds available in the college housing act. Also the interest rates on money have been at such a rate that we simply couldn't construct housing with rents that would be at all attractive for students. DAILY: Aren't there subsidies available from the federal government? NEWELL: That's what we've been looking for. They've got some acts but they haven't got any money. One also needs to have a substantial source other than federal mon- ey to start construction and match with federal money' "What we really need to do is learn how to handle what we've got and you don't do that with slogans and man- ning barricades. You do it with darned hard study, knowledge and re-examina- tion of institutions. This is what college is all about." In the old days the matching funds were accumulated through residence hall re- serves. Our policy in the last few years has been to try to hold the line on rents. We have moved the University from the highest rent school to a medium rent school in the Big Ten. I approve of this trend, but what it means i at the moment we don't have the reserve funds available as we once did to match with the federal funding. DAILY:,If the University could find money how long would it take until students could move in. NEWELL: There's about a three year lead time. DAILY: What are your views on corporate recruiting? NEWELL: I feel that if one services stu- NEWELL: I find it very difficult to differ- entiate this. I stand with the American Civ- il Liberties Union on the inability to do so. DAILY: Do you think the University admin- istration learned anything from the BAM strike? Did it change people's perspectives, ideas or methods of operation? * 4~ NEWELL: Obviously a n y social upheaval that bring such emotion and such long- range impact on priority setting shakes up large numbers of people in the community. The strike committed the University to a significant social goal. There was also some real damage done as a result of, the strike. We have to try to work to patch up the damage because if we stay divided we cannot succeed in achieving our goal. I think one of the positive things has been that many individuals had to sit down and re-think what they were doing, where they were going. You can't say it was a super- ficial cause. DAILY: How does an administrator recon- cile the actions he has to take because of their role with their own personal views and philosophy? NEWELL: There are times when one has to compromise. Obviously you have regrets at such moments but I guess I've been for- tunate enough that on the whole I have felt that we were making progress. We were going in a direction with which I had sympathy and the overall trend was such that I could work comfortably within the system without warping my sense of conscience. DAILY: You have been involved with stu- dents for two years now, what advice might you give them? NEWELL: I guess if I have any hobby horse to ride it's the request that if students are interested in change that they get the tools and knowledge to most effectively bring it 4