McCarthy, Humphrey discuss campaign issues Minnesota Senator seeks military cutbacks Vice President outlines urban problems EDITOR'S NOTE: The following is an interview conducted by Mark Le- vin, editor of The, Daily, and Robert opa, a Detroit News reporter, with Sen. Eugene McCarthy (D.-Minn) on July 27. The interview will be pub- lished in a special convention issue of the Michigan Democrat to be rew leased next week. Levin: Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare, Wilbur Cohen, in defending the war last spring said the expendi- tures for the Vietnam conflict have little effect on the ap- propriations granted his de- partment by Congress. First of all, is that now true? Second- ly, would an end to the war in any way mean a reordering of our national priorities and the funneling of large expenditures into urban areas? McCarth'y: I don't quite un- derstand what Wilbur was talk- ing about unless he was mak- ing an interpretation that the end of the war didn't have any effect on the appropriations and that his deparment would have gotten no more than they got even without the war. If you compare what was appro- priated to what had/ been au- thorized and what had been asked for, there was a signifi- cant difference between these two points. I don't think there's any question but that an austerity program is ii ef- fect: I would say that the war in Vietnam has probably affected the appropriations for HEW boards more than it has affect- ed any other department in the government if you include Housing as part of that general field. Along with the cutback on the Vietnam War, it is impor- tant also, I think, that there be some more general demili- tarization of our over-all policy. The Defense Department is quite able to spend billions of dollars in other areas, especial- ly if we accept the concept of unlimited defense of the coun- try. In this session of Congress we attempted to stop the De- fense Department from going ahead with the anti-ballistic missile system and secured 34 votes in the Senate in opposi- tion to it. That was a very sig- nificant vote, the strongest vote we have had an any major de- fense question in a long time in Congress. So it is just not the war in Vietnam, but it's these excessive expenditures for military purposes that are high even without the war going on. Popa: Why do you feel bet- ter qualified than the other candidates to be President? McCarthy: Did I say I was better qualified? As far as knowing the issues and knowing the problems of the government, I think I show a broader concern and a better analysis of most of the issues and of the processes of gov- ernment than any of the other candidates. Usually they raise a question of not having had administra- tive experience. As a matter of fact, you get a President who is preoccupied with administra- tion and he usually is inatten- dent to some of the more im- portant policy decisions. Popa: Well, along this same line, you have been described by some Negroes as having no soul and not being able to "rap" with them. The polls tend See McCARTHY, Page 2 EDITOR'S NOTE: The following is an interview conducted by Levin and Popa with Vice President Hubert Humphrey on August 2. It will. also be published next week in the Mi- cnigan Democrat., Popa: We will start off with the basic questions, Mr. Vice President. Why do you feel that you should be the President and the candidate? Humphrey:- Well, I feel that I have lived a life of political training and political experi- ence that should be helpful in fulfilling the duties of the of- fice of the President. From the point of view of academic back- ground, I was a professor of political science in the field of American government. I have been an active participant in party politics so I do not come in as a neophyte or as an in- experienced man in the political structure of the party. I have served as mayor of a great city for two terms with executive responsibilities. Dur- ing that period of service, I was confronted with some of the problems that we have today: planning the reconstruction of a large area of a city, establish- ing the very first human rela- tions commission in the United States for any major city, pass- ing the first fair employment practices ordinance for anyma- jor city, working with state leg- islators in order to improve my city government. I have had three terms in the United States Senate. I served for four years as the majority whip of the Senate working in very close cooperation with the then Pres- ident Kennedy as his legislative leader in the Senate, helping form legislative proposals and getting them passed. Now for the last four years I have served as Vice President, which has given me an oppor- tunity to )see the presidency{ in operation. I think there is no substitute for the kind of ex- perience I have received in watching the working of the presidency closely. Popa: What would be your number one priority as Presi- dent? What has to be done with the nation that has not yet been done? Is it the war in Vietnam, the war on poverty? Are these two interrelated? Humphrey: Well, I consider the number one task here, at home to be able to mobilize the physical and the human re- sources of this country, primar- ily for the upgrading of our urban life. I hesitate to designate just the urban problems because there are still many people who live in what we call the. rural community or the non-urban community, but if you have to pick an area in which there seems to be the conditions of crisis, it is in the metropolitan centers, -in the inner city. What I am really talking about is what we can do with people. How do we help the people help themselves? This goes into improving the physi- cal, surroundings to be sure, so that people have decent homes, adequate school facilities, mod- ern medical facilities and prop- er recreational areas and facili- ties. But more importantly, it goes to how you help people become self-sustaining and self- respecting, how you engender pride on the one hand and how See HHH, Page 2 CHICAGO OR BUST? See editorial page Yi t A43a 41atj 10 NORMALCY, High--79' Low-93 Fair and Cooler., Vol. LXXVIII, No. 67-5 Ann Arbor, Michigan-Thursday, August 15, 1968 Tern Cents Six Pages SUGGEST PLATFORM PLANKS: Southern Dems plan convention strategy ATLANTA, Ga. (MP-A coalition' of Southern Democratic chairmen announced a list yesterday of seven Southerners they will push for the Democratic vice presiden- tial nomination. They said they hope to see strong planks written on law and order, support of freedom of choice plans for schools and broad changes in the nations farm pro- gram. Paris delegates 0p claim Hanoi plans offensive By The Associated 'ress U. S. Ambassador W. Averell Harriman dismissed as "un- realistic" yesterday Hanoi's insistent demand for an uncon- ditional halt in U.S. bombing of North Vietnam and accused the North Vietnamese of planning a new wave of attacks in the South. Ambassador Xuan Thuy defended the North Vietnamese government's position, saying the demand was legitimate, realistic and reasonable." " On the list of potential vice presidential candidates are Gov. John Connally of Texas, Gov. Buford Elllington of Tennessee,: Gov. John McKeithen of Louisi- ana, Gov. Robert McNair of South Carolina, former governors Carl Sanders of Georgia and Terry Humphrey a Sanford of North Carolina, and Sen. George Smathers (D-Fla). The chairmen said at a news0 conference after their second meeting within a week that they G e will present the list to candidates for the presidential nomination at the National Democratic Conven- tion on the basis that the South as can unite behind any one of the Stop seven. The group also will communi- S cate to the Convention Creden- ; ATLANTA, Ga. .1 -ieox gia - tials Committee its desire that 'with or without Gov. Lester Mad- challenges to various state dele- dox as a candidate - has become gations be investigated strictly on a pivotal point in Sen. Eugene . the basis of "the legality of the McCarthy's drive for the Demo- selection of the delegates." cratic presidential nomination. -Associated Press 'It is time for all honorable McCarthy forces have taken unce recommendations persons to condemn the utilization control of a challenge to Georgia's of credentials procedures to coerce National Democratic Convention support for the nomination," said delegation, and are giving it top Robert Vance of Alabama, whose priority ingtheirattack on dele- state delegation is one of those gate seating at Chicagoy under attack. The McCarthy strategy appar- The chairmen agreed individ-! ently is two-fold sually that use of the unit rule- by which an entire delegation is' S --should be left up to each dele- eeX ruininals gation. Represented at yesterday 1 'meeting were six states, Geor giaI -~- ~v u men's Benevolent Association, vo- Florida, South Carolina.eNor th L II. 1 ted unanimously Tuesday night to Carolina, Alabama and Mississip- support the get-tough policy pi enunciated by its president, John Pat Thomas of Florida, one of By STUART GANNES J. Cassese. the spokesmen for the group said The state's New Politics party nd McCarthy vie for Georgia delegates idelegration key !Iumph rey drive 1 To attempt to tarnish Vice organization captured Georgia's President Hubert Humphrey's civil rival delegation in a bitter fight. Southern delegates anuno DEFY MAYOR:' Policecall 4'soft' onl ci NEW YORK UP - The city' policemen's union, charging that Mayor John V. Lindsay has order- ed soft treatment of law-breakers, said yesterday it will instruct its 29,000 members "to uphold the law and disregard any unlawful order not to do so." rights image by forcing him into a position of alignment with a delegation picked by Maddox., 0 To try to polish McCarthy's own image on civil rights by bas- ing the Georgia challenge and those in other states primarily on the question of racial discrimina- tion. The shift in the emphasis of the Georgia challenge to the racial question came after the McCarthy Politics 'NOT DEFIANCE' Norman Frank, coiimiunit lations adviser to the associa y re- ation Lindsay and Police Commis- iWRlV 411 u' k01"AA indsay Hwad P.lier Co s- said the directive which the or- sioner Howard R. Leary have de- ganization plans 'to distribute to nied any City Hall interference in its members this week is "most police operations. The mayor said assmeer t deek inds Leary alone is in comnand assuredly not defiance" of Lind- hea commissioner command, n say and Leary. Lthe comsinrcalled it "in-!Case,5,r-lcdinJe conceivable to leave the decision- Cassese, 55, re-elected in June making to the individual officer." to his sixth two-year term as pre- The 325-member delegate body sident of the union, has charged of the police union, the Patrol- that Lindsay adopted a soft pol- - icy because of "either political ex- u pediency or a misguided response P to social pressures." reek police "In the last 21' years we've fol- lowed a policy of restraint that 1 1 emanated from City Hall-a pol- icy of turning the other cheek and not getting involved," said Cas- ATHENS /-P) - Police made a sese, who walked a police beat for ATHES (P~'- Plic mae a18 years but now has a desk ,fob. new wave of arrests yesterday in an effort to apprehend plotters FULL ENFORCEMENT behind Tuesday's abortive attempt "Now, I say, let's try the other to assassinate Greek Premier side of the coin. We're going to George Papadopoulos. enforce the law 100 per cent," he however that the chairmen from six other states--Texas, Louisi- ana, Virginia. Tennessee, Ar- kansas and Kentucky--are being kept informed of the coalition's actions and are in agreement.} will choose delegates committed to either Black Panther Minister of Information Eldridge Cleaver or Dick Gregory at a caucus of their Convention tonight in the Union. The state branch of the party ,e 0today will send 19 of the 150 delegates to the national convention of the combined New Politics-Peace and Freedom parties which will be held in Ann Arbor this weekend. The state delegation will not be bound by the unit rule. Since both Cleaver and Gregory have support within the state delegation, neith- er is expected to win all of its 19 votes.I "It's hard to tell at. this point exactly which way the convention will go," said Eric Chester, Grad. "It seems there is substantial sup- port for both Gregory and Cleaver." Michigan is one of 15 states in which the presidential nominee of the NP-PF convention will appear on the ballot. At the NP state convention to- night, the party will probably con- sider Prof. Larry Hochman of the physics department at Eastern Michigan University as a possible vice presidential candidate and Chester and Thomas R. Copi, '69, as candidates for the two Univer- sity Regent vacancies up for elec- tion this fall. To be eligible to vote at to- night's convention, a person must be a member of CNP. A member- ship drive will be held prior to th "nnvanin in wmichnonnl The Georgia Democratic Party Forum, an organization of dissi- dent Democrats which initiated the challenge, based its case pri- marily on the question of the par- ty loyalty of the Maddox-picked delegation. RIVAL DELEGATION A brief by the forum had al- ready been filed with the Demo- c r a t i c Credentials Committee when a forum-sponsored conven- tion met Saturday in Macon to elect the rival delegatian. For'um chairman E. T. Kehrer later told newsmen he had been subjected to intense pressure from McCarthy's staff to change the emphasis of the brief from party loyalty to race, but had resisted. At Macon, Kehrer was elected convention chairman, but the Mc- Carthy organization immediately took control. During the ensuing fight to elect a partisan delegation, Kehrer an- grily turned in his gavel and left the hall, denouncing the "amoral, tough and financially well- greased" tactics of the McCarthy forces. Kehrer, one of the founders of the forum in 1966, invited repre- sentatives of both McCarthy and Humphrey to the Macon conven- tion as "national observers." EFFICIENT STAFF McCarthy sent an efficient staff, headed by Washington at- torney Joseph Rauh, who is rules and credentials coordinator for the campaign. Humphrey did not respond,, prob'ably for two reasons: -The Maddox delegation in- eludes some delegates who are Humphrey supporters, and others who consider him the lesser evil among the announced candidates. Despite strong sentiment for George Wallace among some oth- ers, the delegation probably could be counted on to go for Humphrey under the unit rule. -Several forum leaders, includ- ing Kehrer, are pro-Humphrey He blamed the Americans for the deadlock in the Paris talks, and repeated his warning that the two sides could move no closer to peace until U.S. air raids on the North were stopped. Thus, after 17 meetings over three months, the peace talks still appeared to be stalled. The chief point at issue, as it was when the discussions began May 13, wAs the question of bombing. Harriman said President John- son could not order a complete halt of the bombing as long as North Vietnam continued to pour troops and material into South Vietnam .for "another round of large-scale attacks." He declared to 'reporters after the four-hour meeting: "I told them the President was ready to stop all the- bombing so we could get on with the talks and I held them responsible for this delay because of their unrealistic po- sition. "They didn't realize that the President means what he says, that he cannot stop all the bomb- ing when they're increasing their shipments of men and material' to the South, increasing the threat to the battle area of the demilitar- ized zone." Nguyen Thanh Le, the North Vietnamese press spokesman, left no doubt that his delegation had no intention of dropping its prin- cipal demand. "We are going to keep on in- sisting that the United States stop its bombing," he told a news con- ference after the meeting. "The American side has put for- ward various forms of proposals consisting in absurdly demanding reciprocity so as to refuse the un- conditional cessation of the bomb- ing, thus preventing the conver- sations from progressing," Thuy said. Harriman also told newsmen that, since the first of the year, Viet Cong terrorists in South Viet- nam have killed 8,000 civilians, wounded 20,000 others and kid- napped 6,000. Biafra fund' extended Sponsors of the Biafran Relief Fund Drive have decided to ex- tend their efforts at least through the month of August. The Newman Student Associa- tion and the Ecumenical Campus Center made the decision after a successful bucket drive on the University campus and through- out the city which raised more Dorms to explain sex,,pot' By HENRY GRIX The University residence halls system Is schehing to deprive freshmen of their innocence. But the administrators' intentions are pure. Spurred by faculty and admin- istrative suggestion, John Feld- kamp, director of University hou- sing, set up a committee last spring to come up with a fresh- man information program on sex, drugs and college life. A program on these "relevant topics" is in the works for the fall, along with counseling and housing. "There won't be any moralizing in any of it,' 'promises Miss Helen E. Tanner, committee member and assistant director of Uniiver- sity housing. "It will be strictly the, facts, and. we will let the stu- dents themselves decide how they want to act on what they hear," she insists. FRESHMEN UNCERTAIN The joint student-residence hail staff committee started on the premise "that many freshmen ar- rive at the University unsure of themselves ands lacking informa- tion about certain aspects of cam- pus life," like sex and drugs, which they seldom have an op- portunity to learn about at home. The housing office thus found it necessary to "assume the respon- sibility for the program and to provide the necessary leadership." Purple, green and blue "Sock it to me" posters will inform stu- dents of the five programs. The first session is designed to introduce staff to students Infor- mally. The following program, scheduled for Sept. 9, will answer freshman - sophomore counseling questions, Health Service and faculty phy- sicians will conduct sessions Sept. 23 and 30 on sex. A discussion of, drugs in Hill Aud. on, Oct. 7 will feature the Health Service, Ann Arbor Police and Dean Thomas D. Rowe of the college of pharmacy. SHOPPING ARQUND The final program, slated for November,,is about"Shopping Around." A panel from Inter- House Assembly, Pan-Hellenic As- sociation, Interfraterhity Council, Inter-Cooperative Council and the Office namnu Husing Bureau. The government said a 29-year- old man, Alexander Panagoulis, is under arrest in connection with the bombing of the premier's car Tuesday. He was riescribed as an army said. Lindsay replied that he knew what pressure policemen are un- der. He said the city's success in avoiding major riots was due to the "professionalism" of the po- r. r .r . " :' }''' . F ,, " : , a , / pi : . .