i i i n
4t argn Dail
Seventy-Sixth Year
EDrrED AND MANAGED BY STUDENTS OF THE UNIVERSrTY OF MICHIGAN
UNDER AUTHORrTY OF BOARD IN CONTROL OF STUDENT PUBLICATIONS
Interview With a
Viet Nam
Veteran
ere Opinion, Are Free*
Truth WM Pre"Ai
420 MAYNARD ST., ANN ARBOR, MICH.
NEWS PHONE: 764-0552
..- _,
Editorials printed in The Michigan Daily express the individual opinions of staff writers
or the editors. This must be noted in all reprints.
THURSDAY, APRIL 6, 1967
NIGHT EDITOR: DANIEL OKRENT
The Issues Before SGC.
To Recognize Non-Students .. .
THE RIGHT of students to associate
with whomever they please is one
which the University, Student Govern-
ment Council, or anyone else cannot and
should not deny. Under the current rules
and regulations governing student orga-
nizations, this right is limited to a cer-
tain extent when non-students are pro-
hibited from being voting members or
officers of student organizations.
At tonight's meeting SGC has an oppor-
tunity to change this situation by pass-
ing an amendment which would allow
student organizations to include non-stu-
dents as full members of their group if
they so desire.
If the proposed change were passed,
recognized organizations would be requir-
ed to have a membership of at least half
students and of at least two-thirds stu-
dents, alumni, or people recently enrolled
in the University who have definite plans
for re-enrolling. The proposal would also
require that student groups have at least
two student officers.
THE UNIVERSITY is not such an exclu-
sive club that it can deny that any-
one who is not in, i.e., enrolled, has any-
thing to offer as a member of a student
group. Residents of Ann Arbor, people
visiting the city or the University for
extended periods of time, recent alumni
who are aware of campus and student in-
terests, and other non-students of these
types could be very valuable members of
organizations.
Under the present regulations, non-
students can only participate on a token
basis. By being able to 'vote and hold some
form of leadership positions, nonstudents
would be encouraged to participate and
offer contributions.
A frequent objection to the change is
the fear that non-students could take
control of an organization and use it for
their own purposes. However, no organi-
zation would be required to accept non-
student members. The change is in the
form of a minimum standard which all
organizations must meet. Organizations
which prefer to retain students as the
only voting members would have that op-
portunity, by establishing their own more
stringent membership requirements.
Also, the requirements of half student
membership and two student officers are
designed to prevent any non-student
take-overs. Unfortunately these provi-
sions are not readily enforceable since
there are no longer any membership lists
to check and since taking a head count
at a meeting to determine whether the
organization is complying would be diffi-
cult and perhaps inaccurate with regard
to the yearly membership.
In addition, the very idea of SGC offi-
cials snooping at meetings and counting
heads is repugnant to the concept of
a university's student government.
IN A SITUATION such as the non-stu-
dent question, however, the intent of
the change becomes more significant than
feasibility of its enforcement, for the
current regulations concerning non-stu-
dent membership are not enforceable
either.
The change, ineffective as it may seem
in regard to actual control, does recog-
nize the value of non-students in the
University community and should be ap-
proved.
-ROB BEATTIE
This is the text of an inter-
view with Hollis M. Peter, a 1964
graduate of the University, who
has recently returned from army
service in Vietnam.
MR. PETER, what was your
position while in Vietnam?
I was an intelligence officer
with the First Air Cavalry Divi-
sion in the Central Highlands
from January, 1966-January, 1967.
S was an imagery interpreter,
working with aerial photographs
and electronic sensor imagery tak-
en by the Aerial Surveillance and
Target Acquisition (ASTA) pla-
toon-fixed wing OV-1 Mohawks.
What contact did you have
with the Vietnamese peasant
population? What incidents that
you might know of demonstrate
their loyalty to one side or the
other?
I had little contact with Viet-
namese peasants and none with
ARVN (the South Vietnamese Ar-
my) officials other than Vietna-
mese interpreters assigned to our
Military Intelligence Detachment.
Working in a technical field, I
had limited opportunity to go out
to the field on operations. When
I did, I spent much of my off
duty time visiting the towns, vil-
lages, and, in one instance, a
Montagnard hospital near Kon-
tum. In An Khe, my only contacts
were with those people catering to
GI's-selling cokes, haircuts, shoe-
shines, cheap trinkets, etc.
In the field, I do remember
driving through towns several
times when I could see the elders
watching the convoy blankly or
with obvious dislike as the chil-
dren begged for C-rations at the
road's edge. The young kids often
smiled and waved, but the old
people stood silent and staring.
The kids like GI's because we are
soft-hearted and give them can-
dy and cigarettes, but the people
who are old enough to under-
stand the war-if any of them do
-feel no love for us.
A full generation of Vietnamese
children has never seen their
country in peace and has grown
up with war as a condition of
existence.
I remember a story told to me
by a helicopter pilot when I first
got to thecavalry. In the late
summer and fall of 1965 when
the cavalry first arrived, the peo-
ple fromAn Khe were hired to
work in what was to become our
base camp, clearing timber and
brush and washing the dust from
helicopters.
Soon after this practice was
started choppers began to blow
up mysteriously. An investigation
revealed that the children who
washed the choppers smuggled in
hand grenades and dropped these
into the gas tanks. When the
primitive delay fuse was triggered,
the grenades would explode and
destroy the aircraft. Also, the ice
cream and ice sold to GI's at
first often contained slivers of
glass designed toelaceraterone's
stomach. These items were also
sold by kids because they knew
we would not suspect children of
these acts.
ONE INCIDENT to which I was
a witness was an attack on the
base camp in February, 1966. Our
counter intelligence office report-
ed that about one-third of An
Khe was Viet Cong, either active
or sympathetic, while the rest
were uncommitted, but still eager
for American money. After the at-
tack we found out that the vil-
lagers had been preparing for it
for several weeks, digging mortar
positions, laying down aiming
stakes for automatic weapons,
marking approach routes and fin-
ally, on the night of the attack,
actually leading the Viet Cong in-
fantry to their assault positions.
This was done in such complete
secrecy that our agents in town
knew nothing of it and the cav-
alry was caught unprepared.
All this gave me the definite
impression that the people had
been involved willingly as they had
either helped or remained silent
when there were ways to let us
know had they wished.
How do the GI's feel towar~d
the Vietnamese-both the peas-
ants and the government offi-
cials?
Most GI's feel ambivalence to-
ward the Vietnamese. We pity
them for their terrible poverty,
hardships and idlenesses, but on
the other hand, we despise them
for their lack of initiative and in-
credible apathy. We give candy
and food to the kids because we
feel sorry that anyone must starve
and be unhappy. We also curse
them for their filthy habits, such
as throwing trash all over, defe-
cating and urinating whenever
and wherever the need arises, and
letting everything around them
become dirty, broken, and shabby.
What many GI's do not realize
is that the people have never had
much, and when they do, it is
taken for taxes, stolen, or destroy-
ed by war. Whatever hygiene that
might once have -been practiced
has been discontinued as use-
less, just as almost all other ac-
tivities except marginal existence
have been discarded.
Bribery and corruption are wide-
spread and are accepted as nor-
mal in a land where one's con-
science does not extend to anyone
outside the immediate family.
BLACK MARKET activities
flourish everywhere, from Saigon
down to An Khe. Army supplies
unavailable through channels are
often available on the black mar-
ket, and "scrounging" is the only
way to obtain certain items.
home safely. They' have such a
low regard for all things Vietna-
mese that concern for the people
is rarely felt.
These statements will be chal-
lenged by those who got more in-
volved with civic reform programs,
but my impressions came from
men in the field, away from TV
cameras who did not feel that
they had to justify their presence
there and did not feel very help-
ful or benevolent.
What did you find was the
effect of the combat experience
upon the soldiers?
I have talked extensively to in-
fantrymen, trying to get their im-
pression of combat, and I found
that almost universally they re-
port fear and nervousness as over-
powering emotions. It is almost
impossible for me, who has not
been through it, to understand the
emotional state of a man creeping
through the jungle brush toward
a village from which his unit has
been receiving hostile fire.
He is scared and jumpy, espe-
cially if some of his buddies have
been hit recently. If anything
moves, he shoots at it because it
might be a Viet Cong. The over-
whelming desire is to survive at
any and all costs. GI's sometimes
kill innocent people by mistake in
their efforts to stay alive.
MANY OF THE MEN I talked
to had nightmares from killing
women and children, but vowed
they would do it again under the
every living thing in it - men,
women, children, and animals. We
are shocked by this type of action,
but their pacification programs
work because the Vietnamese are
afraid of them.
The American Marines suppos-
edly have many civic action pro-
grams, but my experience with
them was on an operation near
the coast, when a battalion of
Marines was attached to the cav-
alry. I saw Marine choppers bring
in "POW's" who had been tied up
and beaten with rifle butts until
they were unable to talk or move
about. The prisoners included kids,
old men and old women who had
been taken without weapons, doc-
uments or any other indications of
hostile activity. Their treatment
of prisoners got so bad that their
commander was threatened with
disciplinary action if the beatings
continued. They stopped almost
immediately-that time.
THE ARVN troops are cruel and
brutal to Viet Cong and North
Vietnamese Army prisoners, as
well as the civilians in their oper-
ational areas. One must remem-
ber that the war deadens one's
senses after a time and harsh
measures are accepted with little
comment, but the ARVN's seem
to enjoy torture and are very in-
genious at it.
Atrocities are committed by both
sides. North Vietnamese Army sol-
diers skinned our wounded alive
and hung them by their heels
from trees in the Ia Drang Valley
and have beheaded pilots, while we
have taken scalps at Bong Son
and mutilated prisoners with
hatchets, but these occurrences
are not common or widespread in
the U.S. Army.
In the South Vietnamese mili-
tary, torture, mutilation, and slay-
ing of POW's is relatively com-
mon, especially in battle, away
from advisors and reporters, who
cannot be everywhere at once.
What do you think of the
South Vietnamese Army? How
do they compare with the Viet
Cong and the North Vietnamese
troops?
I have an extremely low opin-
ion of the South Vietnamese mil-
itary. Except for elite units, they
have no morale, no discipline, and
are of dubious value as soldiers. I
do not know much about how they
are recruited, but there is a draft
that affects almost everyone. One
of our interpreters was a school
teacher in Saigon. He had a two
year hitch to serve and told me
that he could hardly wait to get
out and go back to his teaching
job. He wanted no part of the
army or the war and was not
afraid to tell me so.
On an operation, I drove
through a complex of dirty, run-
down buildings strewn with gar-
bage, junk, and shabbily dressed
men. I thought it was a refugee
camp until I was told it was a
basic training center. I was shock-
ed. Compared to a U.S. center, it
was horrible. Instead of being
trained in hygiene, discipline and
conduct, these men were lounging
around like a pack of hobos.
No wonder they have a terri-
ble army. They have no will to
fight, no leadership, and appear to
be content to draw their pay and
keep on living-an unsurprising
desire in light of the fact that
many of them are the sole support
for large families and that death
benefits and pensions for soldiers
are limited.
I HAVE little basis for evaluat-
ing the ARVN soldiers' respect for
the people, only having heard sec-
ond hand of their poor behavior to
civilians in combat areas, but the
paramilitary national police are
loathed by all for their cruelty,
arrogance, and corruption.
Employes of the government
(army, police, and officials) be-
lieve in the Ky government be-
cause it is paying them. Ameri-
can backing is the only reason Ky
is still in power and the men in
ranks know it, but they don't care
who is in power as long as they
keep getting paid. Some of the
ARVN interpreters seemed to feel
that Ky was better than Diem
had been, but hastened to add
that anybody was better than
Diem.
The North Vietnamese Army
and Viet Cong, on the other hand
have a much deeper commitment
to their cause. Both feel that they
are fighting to free Vietnam from
foreign control and to unite her
under a free Vietnamese govern-
ment, not one dominated by both
the U.S. and rich, feudalistic Viet-
namese who do not want to help
all the people, but are mort in-
terested in getting rich from the
war.
I TALKED at length to an
American interrogator about the
ideology of our prisoners and he
said that almost none of them
had ever heard the word "Com-
munist" and that very few had
any conception of politics, ideology
or international relations. They
had been recruited with slogans
urging them to fight the foreign-
ers and their puppets, to help
unite Vietnam, and to end unfair
government taxes.
The Viet Cong fought for basic
things, such as local autonomy,
for they are mostly uneducated,
unsophisticated peasants. I have
less experience with North Vietna-
mese but know they have better
clothing, weapons, and discipline
than the Viet Cong and are proud-
er and better soldiers than most
ARVN's. A captured rifleman stat-
ed that man for man, his unit
could beat any unit in the world
except the Koreans and it was
merely the overwhelming power of
our artillery, airplanes, and logis-
tics that kept them from pushing
us into the sea. He was tired and
scared, but proud - a surprising
fact since he could only expect
prison torture and death in the
hands of the South Vietnamese.
In light of the terrible conditions
facing the Viet Cong and North
Vietnamese, I have much respect
for their ability to continue the
war, knowing that militarily the
chances of an early end to it are
very slim.
What do the South Vietna-
mese people think of their gov-
ernment and the Americans?
Most civilians know very little
about the government or indeed
of Vietnam. The peasants are in-
terested only in what occurs in
their hamlet, village, or perhaps in
their district. Most have almost no
conception of Vietnam as a coun-
try and those that do, want it
united without foreign influence
or dominance, regardless of our
benevolent intentions.
Their only khowledge of the
South, Vietnam government comes,
in many cases, from a tax collec-
tor taking their goods in payment
for government protection which
often does not materialize and is
usually not desired, or from, gov-
ernment troops shooting up the
town or shelling the area in at-
tempts to get Viet Cong, who are
often members of the community.
Most peasants dislike their gov-
ernment because it is a strange
and alien organization that in-
terferes with their lives (similarly
to our hill people in the Appala-
chians).
THE SAME feeling applies to
Americans, although we have the
added disadvantage of being tall
white (and black) foreigners who
resemble the French in physical
appearance and behavior. Most
Vietnamese dislike all foreigners
and we are no exception.
While they are amused and'
amazed at our lavish spending and
attempts to aid them medically
and with civic reform, they still
see us as interlopers, and their
weariness and disgust with war
and soldiers overrides any good
feeling they might. have for us
as people trying to help them.
We cannot hope to remake
these people into capitalists, Chris-
tians, or Westerners. Thei whole
history has molded their ways of
thought and behavior in a man-
ner that is alien to ours; we seem
to feel that we'll help them to love
democracy western style, or kill
them in the attempt. This is
wrong.
4
... To Eliminate Ex-Officio Seats
Hollis M. Peter
BORN OF THE 1954 Lang Report that
established Student Government Coun-
cil, the voting ex-officio seats now occu-
pied by organizational heads have become
as obsolete as the paternalistic report
that fathered them.
The Lang Report recommenced the in-
clusion of ex-officios on the basis that
they would provide moderation for an
otherwise impotent body. It now seems
that with the possibility of a sweeping
change in SGC's structure coming out
of the expected fall report of the Presi-
dential Committee on Decision-making,
the abolition of the ex-officios' vote
would be a fitting first step toward pro-
viding the University with an effective,
representative student government.
Currently, the ex-officios serve no oth-
er purpose than to provide expertise in
matters with which they have a first-
hand familiarity. They either represent
no one or they represent special student
interest groups, and in the cases where
they do have a constituency, those rep-
resented have inordinate strength on the
Council.
PERHAPS THE EASIEST way to note the
deficiency in the current system is
to analyze the positions of each of the
current organization presidents who serve
on SGC:
0 Interfraternity Council and Panhel-
lenic Association. These are the two or-
ganizations that likely come closest to
"representing" student opinion, albeit of
special interest. However, when assert-
ing that the IFC president is more in
touch with his constituency than the at-
'large, elected member of SGC who as-
sumes representation of 30,000 students,
proponents of ex-officios fail to recog-
nize that the IFC head more closely rep-
resents the IFC as an institution than
he does those students in fraternities.
Apart from this, and perhaps more
important, is the point that each fra-
ternity or sorority member who is con-
sidered represented by the organization's
head' is also represented by the at-large
members he-may vote for twice per year.
Thus, fraternity and. sorority members'
are in possession of dual representation,
having one extra vote by virtue of their
affiliation.
r Inter-House Assembly. The grant-
ing of a seat to the president of this
has the double representation of the
Greeks, but, in addition, deserves the in-
equity even less, if one dares recognize
degrees of inequality.
The dormitory resident, more often
than not, is not a resident of the sys-
tem by choice; he or she is herded toward
the large institutional living structures
under the aegis of the University rule
that requires supervised housing for all
freshmen and for sophomore women. Dor-
mitory residents do not generally choose
their living positions, nor do they usually
actively associate with the system or the
unit.
a UAC: This amalgam of the old
Men's Union and the Women's League
holds the most 'ludicrously assigned seat
of the four ex-officios. UAC is, indeed,
an activity and service organization; its
executive board is self-perpetuating, ap-
proved by a combination of previous ex-
ecutive officers and the Union's Board of
Governors. No student is a "member" of
UAC; one may attend UAC sponsored
concerts at Hill Auditorium, or one may
work for the organization, but nobody
"belongs" to it. To give a vote to the
president of UAC is as ridiculous as to
grant a vote to the College Republicans,
Voice, or the Women's Athletic Asso-
ciation.
IT IS TRUE when the pro-ex-officio fac-
tion argues that these organizations
can provide expertise to SGC member-
ship; but this "expertise" could readily
be extended without giving the orga-
nizations' heads a vote.
Additionally, there is no reason why
any apartment dweller should tolerate
a situation whereby any freshman sor-
ority pledge is represented by the same
at-large council members as the former
individual, and is also in the constituency
of the IHA president and the head of
Panhellenic.
THERE IS NO REASON, then, that ex-
officio seats should remain. There is
no reason why, when a sorority issue is
discussed, that the Panhel president
should not be invited to provide expert
testimony at that SGC meeting. And
there is no reason why, as some cur-
rently associated with SGC say, the ques-
tion of ex-officios should be postponed
until the Hatcher commission makes its
fail 'rpnrt
GI's hate the thievery and dis-
honesty of Vietnamese, but con-
tinue to support the system for
its convenience and the profit
they can make themselves if they
engage in the black market.
The South Vietnamese govern-
ment was not much in evidence
in the Highlands, as we rarely
conducted operations with ARVN-
troops. The most visible remind-
ers of the government were the
National Police, or "white mice"
(because of their white uniforms),
universally held in abysmally low
repute by our troops for their ar-
rogance, incompetence, and shod-
dy discipline and appearance.
Many GI's felt that the South
Vietnamese government is full of
corrupt men who are out to make
the most of continuing the war
since this means a steady influx
of money into their pockets, but
the GI's have very little good in-
formation or interest in this sub-
ject.
They realize that graft is an
accepted practice with both U.S.
and Vietnamese officials, but see
no way to do anything about it
themselves and feel that it is not
their job to say anything. Many
feel the people are getting a raw
deal from the government and
that the war is not helping much
either, but are mainly concerned
with getting home themselves.
GI's want more than anything
else to get through their year and
circumstances because bitter ex-
perience had showed them that
to hesitate or not shoot was often
fatal. Besides many GI's feel that
the lives of all of the Vietnamese
are not worth that of a single
American.
They are hard and savage in
battle, but often surprisingly hu-
mane. Once we captured a Viet
Cong lieutenant who later aided
us in interrogation of prisoners-
of-war because he saw our med-
ics give aid under fire to three
of his men, when the easiest
thing would have been to just
leave them or else shoot them.
He decided we were not ogres as
he had been told and was won
over to our side.dThis story was
told to me by the American in-
terpreter who interrogated him.
What is the extent of bru-
tality practiced by both sides?
I have no way of judging the
brutality in other units, but I
got a pretty good idea from ru-
mors and reports from men work-
ing with them. The cavalry has
some brutality, but most of our
units will usually take POW's and
keep them alive for interroga-
tion, for they know that the in-
formation gained may save U.S.
lives later. The Koreans are sav-
age and are widely feared by Viet
Cong and North Vietnamese for
they rarely take prisoners and re-
putedly clear an area by killing
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Letters.* Answering the Maynard St- Questions,
To the Editor:
THE EDITORIAL, "Maynard
Street Transactions . ," in
yesterday's Daily, asks three ques-
tions. Here are the answers to
those parts of the questions di-
rected to the University.
(1) I did not allow Mr. Stege-
man to withdraw his bid. Mr.
Stegeman unilaterally withdrew
his bid in les than 30 days and
thereby forfeited his bid bond of
$8,075, as stated in paragraph 6
of the University statement pub-
lished in The Daily April 5. (A
further question might be, why
not accept Stegeman's bid and sue
for the bid price of $161,500? Be-
cause the bid was made by Stege-
man, "not in his individual capa-
city but on behalf of a corpora-
tion to be formed." We were ad-
vised that there was no personal
second highest bid of $121,750 plus
the forfeited bond brought the
price for the property to about 30
per cent higher than the $100,000
appraised value.
(3) In response to your third
question, the minutes show that
the Regents voted unanimously to
sell the property and to accept
the second highest bid after the
first bid was withdrawn.
--W. K. Pierpont
Vice President and
Chief Financial Officer
A Week Lute
To the Editor:
A SALUTE to yesterday's front-
page story, "Sky's No Limit
in Ann Arbor Real Estate." I hold
Mayor Hulcher and the two
Republican professor - aldermen
(Doug Crary R-2nd Ward, and
Dark Suggestions
To the Editor:
THE STATEMENT in yesterday's
editorial concerning the sale
by the University of its Maynard
street property that "The Univer-
sity then allowed Stegeman to
withdraw his bid, and the ques-
tion posed in the same editorial,
"Why did Pierpont allow Stege-
man to withdraw?", create a mis-
leading impression that the Uni-
versity and Mr. Pierpont had open
to them an alternative course of
actionwhich they elected not to
pursue.
The fact is that under the cir-
cumstances set forth in the edi-
torial and accompanying news
stories, the term "allowed" is to-
tally meaningless. Withdrawal of
the bid was a unilateral act of the
V,;AA - T-- - - .-.n- if11- ,l +r
whether to accept the second high-
est bid or to reopen the bidding
at the substantial risk of losing
a sale at a price over 20 per cent
in excess of ,the appraised value.
The decision went in favor of the
bird in the hand.
It is difficult to find in these
circumstances reasonable basis
for questioning either the pro-
priety or the economic justifica-
tion of the decisions made by Mr.
Pierpont and the University. The
dark suggestions of "suspicion"
and "doubt" made by the editorial
seem quite uncalled for.
-Luke K. Cooperrider
Prfessor of Law
Young Dents
To the Editor:
A S MEMBERS of the executive
Through fear of being associated
with the far-left, the Young Dem-
ocrats have too often failed to
take positive stands. As conscien-
tious citizens we believe we can-
not further abnegate our responsi-
bility to provide rational leader-
ship in the anti-war movement.
-Janis L. Sorkin, '68
-Jared H. Becker, '67
-Cecily B. Simon, '67
-Martin W. Slobin, '69L
-Dee R.Wernette, Grad
Boorishness
To the Editor:
THE MOST STRIKING thing
about the recent disrupting of
the future University President's
conference was the boorishness of
the disrupters. If they i'eally have
a cause it mitht befavrablr r e a