V."
Ambassador Herzog Disputes Toynbee
in Public Forum for Slurs Against Israel
•
(Direct JTA Teletype Wire
to The Jewish
News)
MONTREAL—A hard-hitting
two-hour' debate between Israel
Ambassador Yaacov Herzog and
his historian Arnold J. Toyn-
bee, on the historian's pro-Arab
charges against Israel, wound
up Tuesday with an invitation
from the envoy to Dr. Toynbee
to visit Israel and see for him-
self.
The debate, held in response
to a challenge to the historian
from the envoy, took place in
the same Hillel House at Mc-
Gill University where Prof.
Toynbee made his first state-
ments last week on the issue.
The Hillel House was packed
with 350 students and 35 news-
papermen. Television coverage
was barred and the general
public was excluded from, ad-
mission.
The debate dealt with two
principal assertions made by
Dr. Toynbee, -both at the first
lecture at the Hillel House, and
at prior lectures, and in his six-
volume study of history.
These were a comparisbn of
Israeli treatment of the Arabs
in 1947 with the Nazi onslaught
against Eurbpean Jewry and a
contention - that there was a
"statute of limitations" on Jew-
ish claims to Israel.
The debate, -though vigor-
ous, was cordial. Students list-
tened in silence, having been
asked not to applaud or other-
wise react openly to the vari-
ous points made by the de-
baters. The Ambassador said
in his concluding statement
. that the British historian was
welcome to come to Israel "to
see the vitality of life and
survival without rancor—and
then to give judgment."
The Ambasador declared
that the Germans "committed
a crime which the human imag-
ination finds difficulty in em-
bracing. It ' was cold-blooded
planning and cold-blooded exe-
cution. Mankind will brood on
this specter until the end of
time."
The Arabs, on
the envoy
1947 they
.pleme
lions' ec. n on Pales
qu d • rmer UN SI
G eral Try e L'
that
eir inte io
al
rce and
sault on.
the
The envoy asse
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Arabs then said that "killing
transcended . all other condi-
tions and considerations" and
quoted the Arabs' leaders as
declaring "a war of 'extermination
and massacre". against the Jews.
Through that war, a large
number of people, Jewish and
Arab, in the Middle East were
uprooted," he said. "The prob-
lem was the result of the war
proclaimed by the Arabs."
Two hundr e d' thousand
Arabs, he said, "are today en-
joying equality in Israel, and
I as the Ambassador of Israel
represent those Arabs just as
I represent the Jews. Israel
absorbed the . Jewish refugees
who were displaced from the
Arab countries by this war,
but the. Arab' refugees are
_permitted' to lead a parasitic
existence in the camps."
sador said that "in point of
fact the Jewish people lived in
and created in Palestine con-
tinuously. Palestine was never
a separate Arab entity."
Toynbee's Anti-Israel Talk
Brings Protests in Debate
with Ambassador Herzog
In his address, the historia
disputed the historical and Bibli
cal claim of the Jews to Israel as
their homeland. He also asserted
that the creation of Israel might
raise a "very -painful conflict of
loyalties" for Jews living in the
United States and other countries.
He told the students that
Jewish treatment of the Arabs
in 1947 was a human reaction
to the Nazi prosecution of Jews
but that "it was particularly
tragic because the Jews suffered
the same sort of treatment at
the hands of the Nazis. At one
point in the discussion, a stu-
dents asked Prof. Toynbee if he
himself was anti-Semitic and he
retorted, "some of my best
friends in England are Jews."
He also declared that the
Arabs were not acting humanly
or sensibly in not settling Arab
refugees in the Arab countries
and that he had advised Arab
friends to that effect. He said
the Arab countries could help
refugees while still retaining
any "claim" they had on "terri-
torial Palestine."
He described his Use 'of the
Neverthelegs, the Ambassador
stressed, "there is a difference
between a parasitic existence
and total extinction. It is mor-
ally wrong to make the com-
parison" the historian had
made. The Ambassador also
condemned "the neutral moral-
ism which would have the Jews
permit themselves to be sacri-
ficed as they did in Germany
rather than resist as they did
in Israel."
Prof. Toynbee then replied.
with the assertion that in the
debate, "we are dealing with
the civilians behind the lines.
This is murder. Whether it is word "fossil" in reference to
murder by the British in Port Jews as "urifortunate" and
Said 'or by the Germans in Pol- explained he did 'not consider
and, it is murder, and there is the Jewish people dead but
no such thing as more than 100 rather 'as a survival, a con-
percent murder. All of these tinuing group from a time and
points apply to the acts of the place where other peoples
Stern Gang and the Irgun," a had died out. He also said
reference to two pre-State terror- that the "diaspora condition"
of. Jewry during the past
ist groups.
The historian said: "I do
not know how far the Haga-
nah," the 'pre - State Jewish
underground army, "was im-
- plicated,, but I have heard- it
said and I have never heard
it denied, that after Deir
Yassin, Jewish trucks went
around with loud speakers in
Arab settlements and called
out, 'if you don't want this get
.
uti."
The historian charged that
e Arab refugees left Pale - .
ne no more of their own free
ill than the German Jews left
ermany before 1939, or the
French refugees who fled south
in 1940. The refugees do not
thereby forfeit their rights or
their properties."
He added that more than half
of the private property and
land in Israel "belonged to the
Arabs who fled and who are
now living outside of their
homes but often in sight of
their homes."
thousand years would be a
model for the world society
the atomic age.' In the new
world, he said, there was no
place .for 'sovereign nations,
only for minority groups un-
under local governments
which would have municipal
powers but no power to wage
war or commit aggression.
Saul Hayes, executive director
of the Canadian Jewish Con-
gress, took issue with .Prof.
Toynbee's statement that the
right of Jews to Israel could be
questioned. He described as
"canard" Dr. Townbee!s ass
tion that Jews outside of I el
might face a "conflict of
al-
ties" and added that C
dian
Jews had "amply demo rated
in two World Wars Whe their
loyalties were and toda they
demonstrate each and eve
ay
their paramount 1 o y a 1 t
Canada."
Davidson Still Prexy
The ambassador replied to of Merged Federal
this that the Deir Yassin in-
cident "came after tremen- Department Stores
dous provocation." It was con-
Joseph H. Davidson will remain
demned by the Jewish Agency president of the new Federal De-
and a message of regret was partment Stores' chain, it was an-
sent to King Abdullah of nounced after a • three-man 'syn-
Jordan. The Arabs committed dicate gained control of the 35
many atrocities but there was Federals stores and 25 Kobacker
never a word of regret."
Stores, Inc., of New York and
The. envoy added that the Ohio.
historian had declared in his
Davidson is president of David-
books that all wars were ac- son Bros. Inc. which operates the
companied by.afro'cities Federal Department Stores. Mar-
against civilians and he asked, vin Kobacker, of Toledo, 0., will
"why pick on the Jews?"
remain as an executive officer of
Speaking again, the historian the combined chain. The corn-
said that all Jews in the world bined volume of both core, ations
"have associated themselves is more than $100,000,000' iVear.
- with the atrocities which took
Sixty percent 'of the Davidson
place in.Israel and with the family holdings in Davidson Bros.
holding of the Arab property, has been acquired by the yn-
particularly the Jews of Canada dicate, called the Midwest Hold-
and the United States. This is ings Corp., which has offered also
robbery." Toynbee added that to _purchaspercent of the
such behavior was a iart of remaining • Davidson
1110 stock from
human nature and that' "the other stockholders.
Jewish people took part in this
Last September Davidson and
kind of action."
Kobacker revealed plans for the
In another phase of the de- consolidation of the two chains,
bate, the Ambassador replied stressing that the introduction of
to the historian's asserti6us that MidweSt Holdings was intended
he questioned the claim of the to facilitate financing for ex-
Jews to Palestine. The Ambas- pansion.
`Jewish Child Is Born' Was Published by Bloch
We regret the error in the
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Included in the book are
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This book will be found to
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A valuable
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